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Could the first bar be 100% attributed to Generaladmiral Alfred Saalwächter?

Also could the bar with the Spange be identified?

Thanks

John

 

thumbnail_Generaladmiral Alfred Saalwächter 1.jpg

thumbnail_Generaladmiral Alfred Saalwächter 2.jpg

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First of all, the long bar doesn't even belong to you in that it's currently for sale somewhere else.  And secondly, aren't you the guy who has gotten bars identified in this forum only to turn around and flip them for a hefty profit as "ID'd Bars" somewhere else?  Aren't you also the guy who sold the von Schraeder bars to Erik in Slovenia for a tidy sum right after a member here identified it for you?  I think you probably owe that member a commission and/or a case of wine for adding serious value to those bars for you.  If dealers intend to financially benefit from the research skills of other members here, maybe they should state that information up-front in their posts.  Just my two cents.                

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2 hours ago, Simius Rex said:

First of all, the long bar doesn't even belong to you in that it's currently for sale somewhere else.  And secondly, aren't you the guy who has gotten bars identified in this forum only to turn around and flip them for a hefty profit as "ID'd Bars" somewhere else?  Aren't you also the guy who sold the von Schraeder bars to Erik in Slovenia for a tidy sum right after a member here identified it for you?  I think you probably owe that member a commission and/or a case of wine for adding serious value to those bars for you.  If dealers intend to financially benefit from the research skills of other members here, maybe they should state that information up-front in their posts.  Just my two cents.                

First of all, I'm not a dealer and I have bought some ID'ed bars and sold them but most I had to sell as just the bar without the ID because the bars were not unique enough to be identified just on the bar combination.  I just had the word of the seller that they belonged to the person.  I trust the seller and believe what they said about the bars but I couldn't prove the bars belonged to the attributed person so when I was selling them I had to take a loss on many of them.  That's why I'm asking because if a bar cant be identified on the bar combination alone then it isn't worth getting because if you later go to sell it then you wont get your money back on it.  I don't remember why I sold these bars (wanted something else or just needed money).  But I didnt make some profit selling them I lost money.   

Edited by GODISHIGH
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4 hours ago, Simius Rex said:

And secondly, aren't you the guy who has gotten bars identified in this forum only to turn around and flip them for a hefty profit as "ID'd Bars" somewhere else?

Simi makes a good point here. I remember when several members of this forum together with me identified a ribbonbar which belonged to the Prince of Hohenzollern. Rick Lundstrom before his early passing already stated that identification is something members of this forum are more than willing to do for the good of the community, but not if it's sole purpose is to enrich a collector

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Agreed, the forums are now full of people looking to abuse the talents of others for profit. This is why Rick started charging a flat rate for his research capabilities back in the day.

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I'm thinking you all have me confused with somebody else.  I never owned the von Schraeder bar I only asked about it.  The bars I have purchased already had a name attributed to them but It just couldn't be verified through the bar alone.  The bars I had had combinations that other soldiers could have had and I couldn't prove they belonged to the individuals so I ended up selling them as the bar alone not named.  I purchased them as named for another seller who I trust that they belonged to the attributed individuals but just couldn't prove it and when I was selling the burden of proof was on me.  I only tried to sell them because I wanted something else or just needed some money at the time.  I'm not trying to get a name tacked on to the bars so I can make bank.  I fully intend to keep the bars unless I end up needing to sell it. 

And no im not the guy whose had bars ID'ed only to make bank somewhere else

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32 minutes ago, GODISHIGH said:

I'm thinking you all have me confused with somebody else.  I never owned the von Schraeder bar I only asked about it.  The bars I have purchased already had a name attributed to them but It just couldn't be verified through the bar alone.  The bars I had had combinations that other soldiers could have had and I couldn't prove they belonged to the individuals so I ended up selling them as the bar alone not named.  I purchased them as named for another seller who I trust that they belonged to the attributed individuals but just couldn't prove it and when I was selling the burden of proof was on me.  I only tried to sell them because I wanted something else or just needed some money at the time.  I'm not trying to get a name tacked on to the bars so I can make bank.  I fully intend to keep the bars unless I end up needing to sell it. 

And no im not the guy whose had bars ID'ed only to make bank somewhere else

Still, you could make the effort and do the research yourself, especially if you’ve been given a name. If you then present your findings here for verification, your query will probably be received more warmly.

Juat my 5cts.

Kind regards,

Sandro

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3 hours ago, GODISHIGH said:

And no im not the guy whose had bars ID'ed only to make bank somewhere else

This is a blatant lie, in the past you have asked for ID's. At the bottom of my comment you will find the Hohenzollern ribbonbar thread, where I, together with other collectors helped to identify. Much to my surprise and chagrin I found out that CCJ had purchased it from you not long after the identification. Not a single member of this forum that helped you received compensation for that help. The collecting world is a small one, it is impossible to sell things without collectors finding out, as Rick already said in the late 90's.

I don't know about other collectors, but I remember this incident all too well so it won't surprise you when I say that you won't receive any help from my part with identifications in the future.

 

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Nobody purchased that bar from me because I never owned it.   I put another person in contact with the owner and they purchased it.  Yall just assume because ive asked about alot of bars in the past.  You should look into this more before accusing someone. 

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Many valid points have been made in the previous posts.  I would like to follow-up one very important point that Sandro (Member GdC26) eluded to in his post.

This is both a help-forum and an educational forum.  Bar-identification is a very hot topic here.  There are several very experienced and brilliant members here (well, one in particular) who are very skilled at researching these various award combos. 

This forum, therefore, presents a unique opportunity for less experienced members like me, AT THE VERY LEAST, to gain an understanding about WHAT MAKES A BAR RESEARCHABLE, and what does not.  

It doesn't mean you have to be a genius at researching the ranklists, almanacs and journals.  It simply means UNDERSTANDING what combinations of awards on a bar make alarm bells go off for the experts. 

I will be very pleased when I can look at a bar and say to myself, "That has potential for identification."  But in the meantime, I'm just another dummkopf trying to learn.   

Edited by Simius Rex
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He is a flip artist and definitely a dealer!

I am sure the IRS would enjoy looking at his sales across the fora and they would conclude the same.

He is exploiting your knowledge, you need only look at his profile and more or less 15 pages of information requests or research help.

Combine that with his sales activity and basically you are all employees?

His activity has nothing to do with the collecting community, purely self gain?

Part of the reason I don't post here any more is likes of him.

Best

Rich

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3 hours ago, Jock Auld said:

He is a flip artist and definitely a dealer!

I am sure the IRS would enjoy looking at his sales across the fora and they would conclude the same.

He is exploiting your knowledge, you need only look at his profile and more or less 15 pages of information requests or research help.

Combine that with his sales activity and basically you are all employees?

His activity has nothing to do with the collecting community, purely self gain?

Part of the reason I don't post here any more is likes of him.

Best

Rich

You have no idea what your talking about.  I am not a dealer and I have only sold bars that I purchased that already had names attributed to them but couldn't prove they 100% belonged to the attributed name so had to sell them as just unnamed ribbon bars.  The accusation about the high ranking bar that Laurentius posted I never owned and so I couldn't have sold it.  Any bar I sold was because I needed some money at the time or I wanted to get some money to add another item to my collection.  I never have made any money off the bars I sold I lost money.  I never had any intention of selling them but things happen.  Most every bar I asked about here I didn't own ever and was just wanting to know if it could be named but they either couldn't be or were too expensive.  The High Ranking Bar and the von Schraeder bars are two y'all have mentioned that I sold but I never owned either of them.  Making accusations like you are doing, just coming to conclusions like others hear will also help drive people away.  

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I've just completed reading several of your threads and posts, and I'm going to level an accusation at you that you cannot deflect or defend:

You hardly ever say "Thank you." 

People competently and selflessly answer your questions or ID your bars, but after they do, you simply vanish without expressing any kind of gratitude for their efforts.

I don't know why, but folks who don't bother saying "Thank You" irritate me to no end.  In my experience, a simple "Thank You" goes a long way to create a positive image of oneself in a forum.      

Edited by Simius Rex
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9 minutes ago, Simius Rex said:

I've just completed reading several of your threads and posts, and I'm going to level an accusation at you that you cannot deflect or defend:

You don't say "Thank you." 

People competently and selflessly answer your questions or ID your bars, but after they do, you simply vanish without expressing any kind of gratitude for their efforts.

I don't know why, but folks who don't bother saying "Thank You" irritate me to no end.  In my experience, a simple "Thank You" goes a long way to create a positive image of oneself in a forum.      

I'm not going to argue about saying Thank You.  I don't say thank you on alot of threads or posts.  After what I've been accused of already in this thread its interesting that this would be brought up.  People don't always say thank you to me but I'm not going to get angry about it and hold a grudge against them.   I don't say thank you enough no arguments there but this thread isn't about me not saying thank you its about accusations of me taking advantage of there knowledge when I didn't.  Nobody is coming to my defense in this, either I'm taking advantage of knowledge and making buck or I don't say thank you enough.  If you want to be upset about me not saying thank you in my threads your welcome to and Ill try to remember to say thank you from now on 

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This will be my last post on this thread.  I've tried to tell yall the truth about these accusations you throw at me but you won't hear it.  All of you just jumped into this making assumptions about me and assumed that because I posted a thread about these bars I owned them and make money off your knowledge which isn't true.  I never owned either the High Ranked bar or Von Schraeder and I only put CCJ in touch with the owner and they made a deal for it.  I don't even know what become of the Von Schraeder Bar after I passed on it.    

If you go to the last post on this thread you'll see CCJ thanking me for my HELP in getting this bar: 

(Notice he said with my help nothing about purchasing it from me or any transaction with me)

None of you ever saw this thread I guess.  All of you have laid accusations and slander on me so now anyone else who even considers helping me will see this thread and assume just like all of you did not even bothering to ask me anything just take yall's word for it.  Nobody in the thread came to my defense and I even sent a message explaining the truth to Laurentius but he never responded so don't know what happened there.

The accusations about me getting bars named just to make bank on them are false and what I've told you proves this.  I could also let you speak with the original owners I spoke with when I posted them here if you want to confirm they owned the bars if you still don't believe me.  

Either way unless yall come back here and post that you made a mistake and jumped the gun on the accusation This will always hang over me on the forum.  

Thanks

John

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Looks like a huge apology is in order, John. This is not the first time this has happened in the last few months.

Apparently it takes one bag egg to get everyone all stirred up. If I were you I would file a complaint with Nick.

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I will not judge what the other collectors have said, but I will say this. When the Hohenzollern bar was first shown others and I identified it, after that identification it was sold (and it turned out John wasn't the seller). However, given the information that this bar had belonged to a reigning prince the price would have gone up to the benefit of the seller. The bar would also have become more desired for eventual buyers. An identification took place with the misunderstanding that the bar was in John's possession. It was only logical of me to think this, since it is a common rule not to ID medal- or ribbonbars on sale at that moment. Someone benefited from the work of forum members, which is not supposed to happen. This is the reason for my annoyance. 

16 hours ago, GODISHIGH said:

I even sent a message explaining the truth to Laurentius but he never responded

I didn't respond, for two reasons. Firstly I wanted to wait what other collectors might have to say. Secondly because I didn't think that this matter was to be resolved privately, given the attention it had gotten in this thread, especially for the reason you mentioned. If the facts were incomplete a collector reading this in future might come to think bad of people who weren't supposed to be thought badly off, simply because a part of the argument is missing.

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No one owes him an apology, that is this instance alone not the 15 pages of research or help requests?

The sad thing is that sales posts are lost so you can't actually see how much this person flips in general but as I have time on my hands being paid to not work I will collect it all together for you if you want. I bet the IRS has some time and archives too! They just need a shove in the right direction!

He has the same MO as All1kew on other fora, particularly the burgundy one, on which he has a different tag.

I believe he even stated in an earlier post (3 years ago ish) here that that is what he does as he buys at auction with a view to profiting?

I think the general complaint is, go find out yourself. The people that know what he wants to know should not help him or at least charge him?

Please Eric, from the 15 pages on his profile , identify at least 5 instances where he has helped this community? Then I will apologize!

Best

Rich

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I guess what I'm really getting at is the current trend towards attacking other members is extremely ungentlemanly--especially when not really warranted. treat others the way you would like to be treated.

rich, you have done the same thing by posting many wonderful items that you were very fortunate to acquire in unconventional ways and i applaud you for that. it would be remiss to point out that after you got opinions on items, you proceeded to sell many of them.

and then there are self-anointed "expert" members that never post/share their own items but have strong opinions on lots of things that others post, and seem prone to getting into conflicts

it's all good, my rant is over, happy caturday!:catjava:

p.s. rich, charles has certainly benefitted from john's post--we certainly all can most definitely agree that the ribbon bar  with the devices is spectacular!

best, ~e

...and the only way that i can post anything on this subject without feeling hypocritical is because of the fact that i haven't sold anything in 20 years...with me, it's the hunting and gathering aspect of collecting that is enjoyable

Edited by Eric Stahlhut
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Eric, 

On 17/10/2020 at 19:53, Eric Stahlhut said:

rich, you have done the same thing by posting many wonderful items that you were very fortunate to acquire in unconventional ways and i applaud you for that. it would be remiss to point out that after you got opinions on items, you proceeded to sell many of them.

I would be very interested in what 'many items' you think I have sold?

I have 'swapped' with 2 members on here, Don Doring and Chris Boonzaier?

Other than that I pretty well still have everything I posted on here.

You are not remiss at best you are wrong at worst you are lying?

I have been well informed by knowledgeable members and for that I am grateful and I enjoy the extra dimension that adds to the history. That though is what it is all about?

What do you do when some one is taking the piss, what is a gentlemanly response in your opinion and how does one effect that?

Rich

Edited by Jock Auld
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I see 'drspeck' is someone that supports you in this direction, I am just looking through  that profile now and can only see help requests.

Guys, you that know what you are about stop helping these profiteers?

It is that simple! At the end of the day you are seeing yourselves off as they don't care about the history only the profit and it is to you they punt the items further?

Stop helping them, let them sink and it will be to your gain as life is too short as it is!

Rich

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Guys, I am going to clean this thread up.... if anyone has a problem with the reason why someone is posting a bar... they have the choice to ignore them.

many bars have been saved from obscurity because someone posted them... many interesting discussions have resulted...

If you feel people are making money and that offends you... ignore the post.

If you feel the need to voice your displeasure, shoot the person a PM, and leave it at that...

Best

Chris

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