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Posted (edited)

Hello.  This discussion should focus on one subject:  the Schwerin MVK2-1870 that serious collectors seek... namely, awarded pieces (Verleihungsstücke) made from captured, bronze, French cannon barrels that were melted-down and cast. These crosses are known to German collectors as "Gußfertigungen aus Geschützbronze."

 

Mecklenburg-Schwerin contracted with only one manufacturer to supply these crosses. They were manufactured in two production-runs utilizing two different casting-molds resulting in awarded crosses with two very different and very distinct patterns. 

 

The two types of awarded MVK2-1870 crosses are identified by Meck-Schwerin collectors as Model No. 1 and Model No. 2.  When compared side-by-side, Model 1 is noticeably smaller than Model 2.

 

All the other crosses are nothing more than wearer's copies, private purchase pieces, Spangenstücke, Kaufstücke, Bedarfsfertigungen, Zweitstücke, or whatever else you want to call them.  There also exist numerous fakes which were created to deceive collectors.

 

I will search the internet for Model 1, the holy-grail of the awarded MVK2-1870, but forum members don't have to look very far for Model 2, because excellent photos of Model 2 were presented by the OP Chechaco in post #1.  Take a good look at his cross... THIS is the REAL DEAL!  Regards. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

      

Edited by Triad08
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, Triad08 said:

Hello.  This discussion should focus on one subject:  the Schwerin MVK2-1870 that serious collectors seek... namely, awarded pieces (Verleihungsstücke) made from captured, bronze, French cannon barrels that were melted-down and cast. These crosses are known to German collectors as "Gußfertigungen aus Geschützbronze."

 

Mecklenburg-Schwerin contracted with only one manufacturer to supply these crosses. They were manufactured in two production-runs utilizing two different casting-molds resulting in awarded crosses with two very different and very distinct patterns. 

 

The two types of awarded MVK2-1870 crosses are identified by Meck-Schwerin collectors as Model No. 1 and Model No. 2.  When compared side-by-side, Model 1 is noticeably smaller than Model 2.

 

All the other crosses are nothing more than wearer's copies, private purchase pieces, Spangenstücke, Kaufstücke, Bedarfsfertigungen, Zweitstücke, or whatever else you want to call them.  There also exist numerous fakes which were created to deceive collectors.

 

I will search the internet for Model 1, the holy-grail of the awarded MVK2-1870, but forum members don't have to look very far for Model 2, because excellent photos of Model 2 were presented by the OP Chechaco in post #1.  Take a good look at his cross... THIS is the REAL DEAL!  Regards.

 

Hello Again.  Here is an internet link to photographs of examples of the two Meck-Schw KVK2-1870 awarded-crosses or "Verleihungsstücke" known as the 1. Modell and the 2. Modell as I discussed in my earlier post.  Pay close attention to Posts Nr. 3, 13, and 16.  Note that the 2. Modell is identical to Chechaco's cross presented in post Nr. 1 at the start of this thread.  I recommend that you save these photos for future reference.  These are examples of the two officially awarded MVK2-1870 crosses.  NO other crosses can be classified as awarded pieces.  Regards.  

 

http://h2385226.stratoserver.net/wbb4/index.php?thread/66352-schwerin-mvk-1870/&postID=419084&highlight=Mecklenburg%2B1870#post419084 

 

 

Grossenvergleich.jpg

1. Modell allein.jpg

2. Modell.jpg

1. Modell.jpg

Intro.jpg

Edited by Triad08
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but the funny thing is that it was the cross shown at the beginning of the topic that was found in a river in the middle of Russia )))
if only he could talk!

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sorry, the above link requires registration on aite.
Is there any information on the circulation of models 1 and 2? I came across information about the presentation of awards of other lands in Prussian regiments, including awards of Mecklenburg, in the amount of one to three per regiment, mostly two.

Data on individual regiment awards:
Kaiser Alexander Garde-Grenadier-Regiment №1.
Tsar Alexander Guards Grenadier Regiment No. 1.

 

Franco-Prussian War of 1870/71:

9 EK-I,
263 EK-2,
70 Russian awards,
5 Saxon awards,
2 Mecklenburg,
1 Oldenburg

 

 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, chechaco1 said:

Is there any information on the circulation of Models 1 and 2 ?

 

All experienced Mecklenburg collectors are aware that it's very difficult to obtain detailed information about anything dealing with Mecklenburg's orders & decorations due to the extremely limited number of books on the subject.

 

Therefore, to estimate the number of awarded MVK2 circulated, some old-fashioned logic could be applied.

 

The Mecklenburg MVK for the Franco Prussian conflict was awarded to Mecklenburg soldiers who were part of the 17th Infantry Division.  This included the 34th Infantry Brigade with about 4200 men and two dragoon regiments with about 1800 men.  So far, we're at about 6000 Mecklenburgers entitled to the MVK.

 

Since Grand Duke Friedrich Franz was also regimental chief of the 24th Brandenburg Infantry Regiment, he likely awarded the MVK to 1200 members of this regiment as well.  Now the count is at 7200 soldiers minus those KIA.

 

Finally, there were awards to divisional and army-corps command personnel, not to mention civilians and officials in Mecklenburg who contributed to the war effort. So my best guess based on the foregoing would be less than 7400 crosses originally awarded. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Simius Rex
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there was a time in history when there were no books at all, and knowledge had to be obtained by ourselves, as in this case. And the number I roughly considered, broken down by the number of the Melenyur regiments, minus the dead, and with some allowance for the awards of other regiments and those involved in the war. But taking into account the fact that the award was hardly universal, since the cross is still for merit, and not for being in the army.

The Prussian Iron Cross, an analogue of the Mecklenburg Cross, was not awarded to everyone.

The 17th Artillery Brigade consisted of a regiment from Holstein and a regiment from the two great principalities of Mecklenburg.

No. 34. Infantry brigade.
 Mecklenburg Grenadier Regiment No. 89 (1668 people (in 1914), 204 killed in the Franco-Prussian War)
 Mecklenburg Fuselian Regiment No.  90 (1694 people in 1870, 300 dead) 10/01/1867
 Mecklenburgisches Jäger-Bataillon Nr.  14 (794 people in 1870, 66 dead)
 cavalry brigade:
 1. Mecklenburgisches Dragon-Regiment Nr.  17 (655 people in 1870, 25 dead)
 2. Mecklenburgisches Dragoner-Regiment Nr.  18 (634 in 1870, 27 dead)
Mecklenburgisches Feldartillerie-Regiment Nr.  60 (four batteries of 200 people each).

In total, through complex arithmetic calculations, we find out that 5650 soldiers from Mecklenburg survived.

 

How many awards were there?
Science does not know this, science is not yet aware of the situation.
If absolutely everyone was awarded, then 5650 crosses of both classes.
Well, if, by analogy with the Prussian Iron Cross of 1870, the German army received 47,600 crosses for one and a half million, this is every 30th.
Well, then the crosses were made there.

Divide 5650 by 30, and we get 188 Mecklenburg crosses of both classes with the date 1870.
That is, they made no more than one cross, but hardly more than five and a half thousand.

For example, the Mecklenburg-Strelitz crosses were awarded on the battle ribbon in total 269.

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Hello.  It is commendable that Chechaco and Simian attempted to tabulate award numbers utilizing deductive reasoning, but both of your numbers seem a bit off-the-mark.  Therefore, I have a suggestion:  Why don't you guys simply ask somebody who may already know the answer to your question?  I would start with forumites "Seeheld" and Mr. Krause.  Regards.

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11 hours ago, Triad08 said:

Привет. Похвально, что Чечако и Симиан попытались свести в таблицу числа наград, используя дедуктивное рассуждение, но оба ваших числа кажутся немного не соответствующими действительности. Поэтому у меня есть предложение: почему бы вам, ребята, просто не спросить кого-нибудь, кто, возможно, уже знает ответ на ваш вопрос? Я бы начал с форумчан "Seeheld" и мистера Краузе. С Уважением.

"Seeheld" and Mr. Krause - to my shame, I do not even know where it is, who it is, in what place to be interested. I believed that the issue of the number of awards given out is one of the top priorities when discussing awards, along with the metal, types, order of presentation and completion, etc.on any websites of any country. Unfortunately, this issue has never been considered in the domestic forums known to me.

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