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Greetings gentlemen. I'd like to ask for your help to check if anything you can find on the name Alfred Günther Gölitz, who is maybe the recipient of this bar.

 

I got the bar together with some photos and paperwork directly from the family, according to the information I got Gölitz was born in 1890 at Chemitz and died in 1984 in Munich. He served in a cavalry unit and spent some years in Belgium, according to the photos he continued to serve during WWII.

The thing puzzling me is that from what I see in the painting, Gölitz was still a Lieutenant by 1917, it would be difficult to for him to get 1st class of Albert Order and 3rd class of Schwarzburg-Rudolstadt cross if I'm right...

 

 

Golitz.jpg

Gölitz in a painting

 

 

s-l1600.jpg

Edited by lew
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Dear Iew,

 

The painting of Alfred Gölitz does show a greenish ribbon next to the EK-ribbon which could be the Albrechtsorden. Given his rank and the fact he wears a three-piece ribbonbar in the 1939 photo makes me reluctant to believe the medalbar is his. Maybe he had an older brother, a father or a nephew? Families usually don't keep very good track of things like this, which results in these kind of problems.

 

All identification problems apart, a lovely bar and a lovely photo, I am jealous.


Kind regards, Laurentius

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Two officers by the name of Gölitz are listed as having received the AOR2X.  One is named Leutnant der Reserve Günter Gölitz from Landwehr IR-104 who received his cross on 24th of December 1916 (his Christmas Eve present it seems.)  The other Gölitz has no first name recorded but he was also in the IR-104 and received his cross in 1918.

 

There is a Hauptmann der Landwehr Gölitz a.D. from the 3rd Landsturm Infanterie Bataillon in Chemnitz recorded as having received the AOR1X on 17th of June 1916.

 

For the Schwarzburg rolls, a forum member here seems to have done a lot of research so it may be useful to contact him:

 

https://gmic.co.uk/topic/16403-rolls/page/14/

 

Incidentally, I mentioned the two guys who received a AOR2X simply because the Albrecht on your bar is attached by means of a safety-hook allowing for easy detachment and replacement of the award.  In fact, I would not rule out different combinations of awards that might have been suspended from both the Saxon and Schwarzburg ribbons for this reason.   

      

Edited by Simius Rex
Spelling error
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Hi Lew,

 

the bar belonged to Max Gölitz, 

Hauptmann der Landwehr ausser Dienst im Landsturm- Infanteriebataillon Chemnitz, in civil life he was a Kaufmann, business man.

I can confirm his Schwarzburg cross 3rd class with swords and his swords to the Sacon Albert knight 1st class, as well as the Landwehr long service medal 2nd class.

 

Best,

Daniel

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38 minutes ago, Daniel Krause said:

the bar belonged to Max Gölitz, 

Hauptmann der Landwehr ausser Dienst im Landsturm- Infanteriebataillon Chemnitz, in civil life he was a Kaufmann, business man.

 

You did it again Daniel! how many times have you helped me I just can't remember 😅 

 

Great to have you guys around, many thanks to everyone!

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10 hours ago, Daniel Krause said:

I can confirm his Schwarzburg cross 3rd class with swords 

 

Hello. So does this mean you have the Schwarzburg rolls?  I would like to cross-reference the Schwarzburg rolls with the lists for the Albrechtsorden compiled by Erhard Roth.  At least I could narrow down the field of possible owners of my bar to some extent.  Regards.   

 

Feldspange Schwarzburg 6er.png

Edited by Triad08
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3 hours ago, Simius Rex said:

Two officers by the name of Gölitz are listed as having received the AOR2X.  One is named Leutnant der Reserve Günter Gölitz from Landwehr IR-104 who received his cross on 24th of December 1916 (his Christmas Eve present it seems.)  The other Gölitz has no first name recorded but he was also in the IR-104 and received his cross in 1918.

 

There is a Hauptmann der Landwehr Gölitz a.D. from the 3rd Landsturm Infanterie Bataillon in Chemnitz recorded as having received the AOR1X on 17th of June 1916.

 

Thanks for great info! Günter Gölitz from Landwehr IR-104 must be the one in the painting and 1939 photo.

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9 hours ago, lew said:

Thanks for great info! Günter Gölitz from Landwehr IR-104 must be the one in the painting and 1939 photo.

 

Based on the available evidence, I believe your theory that Günther Gölitz is the person in the painting and the photograph is right on the money.

 

 

.

Edited by Simius Rex
Corrected my misspelling of Gölitz
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@Daniel Krause : thank you for the compliment, I'm happy you like the bar.  I saw the link to Dave Danner's post above and noticed that in 2013 he generated a lot of excitement in the forum because he was in the process of completing not only the Schwarzburg rolls, but also the Anhalt Friedrich-Kreuz rolls.  Unfortunately, beyond 2013, there is no further discussion about these rolls and the subject seems to have simply faded away.  Not only that, Mr. Danner also seems to have faded away.  (He has not visited the forum since January.)  Do you happen to know if these projects involving the rolls are ongoing, or have they been placed on hold?  Regards.    

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I know that the Schwarzburg rolls are more or less ready and could be published sooner or later.

It only a question of time.

 

About Anhalt - I dont know how far Dave's work is.

 

About Triad's Godet -bar; from the combo Schwarzburg- Saxon-Austria, I THINK, it was one bar of Erich Menzel; see here

https://www.zeige.com/auktionskatalog/Grosse-Ordensspange-und-Urkunden--22648.html

The combo is quite rare, so I have the impression, it might be one of his with a limited assortment of decorations.

 

Best,

Daniel

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On 23/04/2021 at 08:37, Daniel Krause said:

The combo is quite rare, so I have the impression, it might be one of his with a limited assortment of decorations.

 

@Daniel Krause Absolutely brilliant.  I am extremely grateful to you.  And I agree... it is an uncommon combination.  It seems Hauptmann Menzel was the adjutant to the military governor of Lille during the German occupation of Belgium.  It was definitely not a pleasant time for the people of Belgium.

 

You raised a very important point that many ribbon-bar collectors are not aware of.  I was not aware of it until an old German collector explained it me many years ago.  It seemed to be "in-fashion" for well decorated officers to have a bar with, as you phrased it, a limited assortment of decorations.  The absence of decorations from bars could potentially confuse many collectors trying to perform research on those bars.   

Best regards         

 

Edited by Triad08
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