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Hi Gentlemen, 

 

I come across this medal bar. I am only a beginner in this field and I would be very grateful if you can give your opinions on its originality.

p12

Given the size restrictions I will post below other photos.

Thank you

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I took me to long to edit my initial post. 

Will post here all the photos and questions :

 

Hi Gentlemen, 

 

I come across this medal bar. I am only a beginner in this field and I would be very grateful if you can give your opinions on its originality.

 

p15.thumb.jpeg.24b840761266a588ad7d8aad49ec1dbf.jpeg

p16.thumb.jpeg.63a8b47f496c38f2a93b8fb85128f336.jpeg

 

Red eagle and order of the crown:

p17.thumb.jpeg.6dcbb4b244292b8d530216216b926971.jpeg

 

 

 

Order of the Wendish Crown and Order of the White Falcon Cross of Honor:

p18.thumb.jpeg.99c579bb078c74379fc043cc96461284.jpeg

p19.thumb.jpeg.d191977852c628893cd688c4468fd078.jpeg

 

The medal bar is currently sold at an auction. It was mentioned that the Order of the Crown is in gold and Order of the Wendish Crown is also in gold. 

All orders are unmarked. 

In terms of the easiest checks:

the medal bar seems in line to other specimens I saw. 

The order in which decorations appear on the bar seam to be in line to other specimens I saw. 

Ribbons look to be old. 

Also the decorations are attached under the ribbon so not easily to be removed. 

The orders themselves seem to look very authentic.

However, given the rarity of the Wendish Crown Order and the White Falcon Honour Cross I would be very grateful to know you opinion if a combination of the 2 is possible and if those 2 orders look authentic to those who are experienced in this field. Given the rarity of the Wendish Crown Order and the White Falcon Honour Cross I would be very grateful to know you opinion if a combination of the 2 is possible.

Thank you a lot, 

Lucky

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Posted (edited)

If one were to see the first five decorations all by themselves, it would represent a very common combination typically belonging to a long serving Prussian officer and veteran of the Franco Prussian War.  The bar would have been assembled in 1897 or sometime thereafter. 

 

The triple combination of the Prussian Crown 3rd Class, the Wendish Crown Knights Cross, and the White Falcon Honor Cross make sense to me in that they are comparable grades of their respective orders.  These 3 orders also indicate to me that there is a very good chance that after his military service, this person became an administrative staffer or civil servant who served in a capacity where he interacted with or served in Mecklenburg and Saxony-Weimar.

 

I am a bit lazy this morning, so I don't feel like pulling out the Prussian State & Court Handbooks and the Prussian Ranklists looking for a candidate with this award combo.  But I'm sure there are other people here who not as lazy and useless as I am this morning and who might feel like  perusing these volumes.

 

Will this bar be featured in an upcoming auction?  If so, what auction?   Also, I'm not so sure the Wendish Crown is gold.  It looks very much like it might be gilt silver.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Simius Rex
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13 minutes ago, Simius Rex said:

If one were to see the first five decorations all by themselves, it would represent a very common combination typically belonging to a long serving Prussian officer and veteran of the Franco Prussian War.  The bar would have been assembled in 1897 or sometime thereafter. 

 

The triple combination of the Prussian Crown 3rd Class, the Wendish Crown Knights Cross, and the White Falcon Honor Cross make sense to me in that they are comparable grades of their respective orders.  These 3 orders also indicate to me that there is a very good chance that after his military service, this person became an administrative staffer or civil servant who served in a capacity where he interacted with or served in Mecklenburg and Saxony-Weimar.

 

I am a bit lazy this morning, so I don't feel like pulling out the Prussian State & Court Handbooks looking for a Beamter with this award combo.  But I'm sure there are other people here who not as lazy and useless as I am this morning and who might feel like  perusing these volumes.

 

Will this bar be featured in an upcoming auction?  If so, what auction?   Also, I'm not so sure the Wendish Crown is gold.  It looks very much like it might be gilt silver.

Hi Simius Rex, 

Thank you for you reply. 

The lot can be found here: 

https://www.liveauctioneers.com/en-gb/item/102792088_prussian-world-war-i-officer-s-medal-bar-7

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Hi, thank you for your answers. Will be grateful if someone could help to track the possible recipient as this would prove the originality of the bar. Also as separate question, are there sources/ books  accessible to new collectors which would allow to try to track the possible recipient? Thank you in advance

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The auction house confirmed it is a gold-plates Wendish Crown Order. 
Could someone mention since when this order started to be made from gold-plated instead of gold? 
Thank you

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I think it's identifiable, but you'd need access to the award rolls for Mecklenburg and Sachsen-Weimar to do some cross-referencing, and perhaps some Staatshandbuecher. I have no idea as to the date on the Wendisch Krone, maybe one of our German friends who is familiar with Mecklenburg can chime in? I'm surprised that there are no markings on the RAO or KO, as these appear to be award pieces.

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On 17/05/2021 at 07:43, LuckySlevin said:

Hi, thank you for your answers. Will be grateful if someone could help to track the possible recipient as this would prove the originality of the bar. Also as separate question, are there sources/ books  accessible to new collectors which would allow to try to track the possible recipient? Thank you in advance

Hello,

 

Welcome.  Please note that in my opinion "to track the possible recipient" will not necessarily prove the originality of a bar.  Other factors are more important regarding this.  Also, it is possible that a forger could make a group from a Ranklist listing for any recipient chosen.  And, not all original groups are necessarily "textbook".  Some recipients left some awards off of their bars or changed the precedence based upon their own preference.

 

Good luck with possibly acquiring the group.

 

Best regards,

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Hello. In my humble opinion, there is no visible indication or evidence to suggest that the subject bar is a modern contrivance or a forgery. The assembly techniques and the materials utilized are all typical of and consistent with other genuine Prussian bars dating from around the turn-of-the-century.  Regards.   

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18 hours ago, Triad08 said:

there is no visible indication or evidence to suggest that the subject bar is a modern contrivance or a forgery. The assembly techniques and the materials utilized are all typical of and consistent with other genuine Prussian bars dating from around the turn-of-the-century.

I wholeheartedly agree. Although the bar is in good condition you can see the wear and tear that slowly occurs both from wearing and from not wearing (where a bar is stored is just as important as the way it is mounted and the way it is being worn). The ribbon is a little faded, some little natural staining (unlike the tea-stains fakers tend to use) and the fraying of the white ribbon tying down the crosses show us the more than century old materials that together constitute this bar. It's probably not the first bar a starting collector will buy but the techniques used to identify genuine and fake pieces can be used on all bars. 

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