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Litzen/ Kragenspiegel question from a newbie to Imperial German...


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Hi all, I have a few questions regarding litzen during WW1. I wasn't able to find anything online, or at least not specifically what I was looking for. Anyways, what litzen would be worn by officers of Garde zu Fuss regiments? I can't quite get a concrete answer, and the color plates I have found are all for dunkelblau and pre-WW1/ Feldgrau uniforms... I read that Offiziere of GzF had golden gilt litzen emboridered on white wool. Would this have applied to officers wearing Feldgrau? Does anyone have any surviving uniforms? I am quite confused, honestly. I'd like to make a little spreadsheet for myself of who wore what and which rank and so forth. Would officers of Leib regiments had a different background color than those of the lower ranks? My apologies for such a newbie question!

Thank you very much!

Warmest regards,
Seth Moore

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  • 2 weeks later...

For Prussian 1. GRzF thru 5.GRzF,  there was an order of precedence for  shoulder boards and straps with no numbers or cyphers (white, red, yellow and blue).  For M-10 officer Feldrocks, this also translated to the base tab color on the collar.  1.GRzF thru 4.GRzF would use the same muted metallic Doppelitzen on the tabs and utilized Swedish cuffs.  The 5.GRzF has a white base color tab but a single "Old Prussian" style pointed litzen bar and a Brandenburg cuff.  The Prussian Guard Grenadier units, GGR1 thru GGR5, utilized this same order of precedence for shoulder boards (white, red, yellow and blue), which also translated to the base tab color for officer M-10 Feldrocks. GGR1 thru GGR4 would use the same muted metallic Doppellitzen, wore specific cyphers on the shoulder boards and all would use the Brandenburg cuff.  The GGR5 has a white base collar tab but a single "Old Prussian" style pointed litzen bar and no cyphers on the boards.  The Guard Fusilier Regiment used a yellow base tab for the officer M-10 Feldrock, with muted metallic Doppellitzen and Swedish cuffs. All of the units above used brass buttons except 1.GRzF, 5.GRzF and G Fus.R, which used silver buttons.   

 

 

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 Here are the M-1910 officer collar tabs for Prussian Guard Regiments zu Fuss and Guard Grenadier Regiments:

 

White -  1.GRzF  and GGR1 (w/ Doppellitzen); 5.GRzF and GGR5 (w/ Old Prussian Litzen)

Red - 2.GRzF and GGR2

Yellow - 3.GRzF and GGR3

Blue - 4.GRzF and GGR4

 

1st collar.JPG

2nd collar.JPG

3rd collar.JPG

4th collar.jpg

5th collar.JPG

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  • 1 month later...

This is a very interesting thread.  Mr. Mosher, thanks for a good description.  I also understand that these collar tabs had matching cuff litzen, yes? 

 

How about 'generic-non colored' officer collar tabs (images attached), when were they worn, combat?  I have a set on a tunic (attached), and there is no cuff litzen, the cuffs on the tunic are red piped French style with nothing on them.

Collar tabs.jpg

Collar tabs2.jpg

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Your  privately purchased M-1910 waffenrock has officer M-1915 collar litzen to be worn on the Bluse.  When you state that the tunic has piped "French cuffs", I am presuming you are describing a barrel cuff.  If this is the case, 1915 was a transitional period where waffenrocks were simplified (cuffs being one of the simplifications) and the Bluse was being introduced.  As I noted above, the tunic was an officer's private purchase item, so I don't see a problem with the insignia being on it.  What do the cuffs look like and what are the shoulder boards on the tunic?

m1915 litzen.JPG

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Very nice!  A major with GGR Nr.4.  Based on his rank and the Johanniter Order, he could be narrowed down to a few possibilities (unless the tunic is named, already).  At a first cut, I would think he was either Maj. v. Pommer Esche (ultimately commander of JR85 and killed on 9/13/16) or Maj. v. der Hardt (ultimately commander of JR 408). There was also a Maj. Gr. zu Reventlow, but he died on 10/24/14, taking him off the list.

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