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Austrian ribbon bar with golden bar and swords


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Posted (edited)

Many thanks for these information.

 

Reicher seems to be initially a Reserve officer in the 72th Hungarian Infantry Regiment before becoming an active Lieutnant with rank from 1st November 1909 in this Regiment. Promoted to captain with rank 1st May 1917 his wounding is not yet mentioned in the Austrian-Hungarian casulty lists. At least in 1933 he was involved with the Austrian Jewish frontsoldier association. In 1938 he is listed as a Lieutnant-Colonel in Vienna, Rennweg 102.

 

 

 

 

Edited by hoh1851
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  • 3 weeks later...

My first impression would be:

 

EK2 1914

Franz Joseph-Orden Ritterkreuz mit KD

Militärverdienstkreuz 3. Kl. mit KD.X

Silberne Militärverdienstmedaille am Bande des MVK

Bronzene Militärverdienstmedaille am Bandes des MVK

Karl-Truppenkreuz

Kriegsmedaille

Österr. Kriegserinnerungsmedaille 1914-18.X

Tiroler Landesdenkmünze (small ribbon along ÖKM.X)

Jubiläumskreuz 1908

Erinnerungskreuz 1912/13

Ungarische Kriegserinnerungsmedaille

Offizierskreuz des italienischen Kronenordens

 

I will try to find out candidates for that combination.

 

The rarest decoration here would be the Italien Order of the Crown. I made a look through all recepients which are listed in ÖBH-Schematismus 1937, but no match at all. I am sure there were more awards after the print of this Schematismus in 1937. He could have received it during his Wehrmacht service too....

 

I fear it will be hard to give this bar a name.

 

Regards

 

Christian

Edited by Christian1962
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Thank you very much for the info, Christian!

 

Any chances the decoration at the end is an öster. Ehrenzeichen für Verdienste um die Republik? Probably unlikely, as the bar is post-1938, I guess.

 

Best regards

Nicolas

Edited by Nicolas7507
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Hello.  The 8th WIDE ribbon is an imperial Austrian Red Cross Honor Cross, not the Tirol Commemorative.  This Red Cross ribbon has a very narrow Austrian War Commemorative ribbon wrapped around its left side.  And considering the candidate has a wartime FJO-Knight, he was probably a military surgeon.  This information about the candidate's medical background might help the search effort. 

 

Last ribbon: Either the Italian Crown Order Officer's Cross or the Ehrenzeichen vom Roten Kreuz (Officer) of the Austrian First Republic is the last narrow ribbon wrapped around the right side of the Hungarian ribbon.  I realize, the thin white margins are not present on the ribbon for the First Republic Red Cross award, but why would an Italian Crown Order Officer's Cross be mounted in the very last position?   Regards.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Triad08
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Hello, I agree with you regarding the Red Cross Honor Cross and a possible medical background.

 

I don't know, what the most likely award would be regarding the last ribbon.

 

I would have guessed, that we can rule out any Republic awards, as this type of ribbon bar construction is very likely post 1938.

 

 

Best regards

Nicolas

 


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4 hours ago, Nicolas7507 said:

Thank you very much for the info, Christian!

 

Any chances the decoration at the end is an öster. Ehrenzeichen für Verdienste um die Republik? Probably unlikely, as the bar is post-1938, I guess.

 

Best regards

Nicolas

Nicolas,

 

wearing of republican Austrian orders (note: Ehrenzeichen/Verdienstorden) was strictly forbidden in TR, just war medal 1914 - 18 and long service crosses could be worn.

I am not sure about red cross decorations but that´s not very relevant because the were extreme sparly awarded to Bundesheer officers.

 

If someone would have worn a republic order on his ribbon bar against regulars then he would not have done thos on last position. Thet would not make any sense.

 

The ribbon would not match and grade of the Ehrenzeichen/Verdienstorden. Rosettes were not in use. Italian Order of the Crown is the best and most plausible match. Germand red cross Ehrenzeichen would have had a miniature cross instead of a rosette.

 

The bar is post march 1938 - Wehrmacht and not Bundesheer style.

 

I could find a Militärzeugverwalter Johann Pfeffer who became Wehrmachtbeamter in 1938. He owned:

 

Silberne Militärverdienstmedaille am Bande des Militärverdienstkreuzes

Bronzene Militärverdienstmedaille.X

Goldenes Verdienstkreuz mit der Krone.X

Karl-Truppenkreuz

Ehrenzeichen 2. Kl. vom Roten Kreuz.KD

Österr. Kriegserinnerungsmedaille 1914-18.X

Jubiläumskreuz 1908

Ritterkreuz des ital. Kronenordens

ungar. Kriegsmedaille

 

This is the best match but not 100 %. There would be missing one TK-ribbon and a second sword device.

 

Regards

 

Christian

 

Thi

2 hours ago, Triad08 said:

Hello.  The 8th WIDE ribbon is an imperial Austrian Red Cross Honor Cross, not the Tirol Commemorative.  This Red Cross ribbon has a very narrow Austrian War Commemorative ribbon wrapped around its left side.  And considering the candidate has a wartime FJO-Knight, he was probably a military surgeon.  This information about the candidate's medical background might help the search effort. 

 

Last ribbon: Either the Italian Crown Order Officer's Cross or the Ehrenzeichen vom Roten Kreuz (Officer) of the Austrian First Republic is the last narrow ribbon wrapped around the right side of the Hungarian ribbon.  I realize, the thin white margins are not present on the ribbon for the First Republic Red Cross award, but why would an Italian Crown Order Officer's Cross be mounted in the very last position?   Regards.

 

Yes, an Italien Orden would have been on last position anyway. I would not bet my collection on a red cross ribbon.

 

My problem is this small piece of ribbon between ÖKM.X and JK1908:

 

grafik.png.10f192574b00ab56945ee6488f42d28a.png

 

I would think it´s the Tyrolian commemorative medal 1914-18. An Austrian red cross decoration from WW1 would be before ÖKM.X and not after. But the Tyrol medal makes no difference here because they were not listed in ÖBH-Schematismus.

 

Regards

 

Christian

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Triad08 said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

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Thank you very much for the clarification and the additional info! 

 

Pfeffer sounds like a very good match. Did he receive a Pr. EK2 or MEZ?

 

Regarding the Tyrol/Red cross ribbon: I just cannot make out any green colour. I tried making a better photo, please have a look. 

 

Best regards

Nicolas

IMG_7706.jpg

Edited by Nicolas7507
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59 minutes ago, Christian1962 said:

My problem is this small piece of ribbon between ÖKM.X and JK1908:

 

grafik.png.10f192574b00ab56945ee6488f42d28a.png

 

 

That is not a small piece of ribbon!  It is the right side of a Red Cross Ehrenzeichen ribbon! 

 

The ÖKM.X ribbon is covering the left side of the Red Cross ribbon. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Simius Rex
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1 hour ago, Simius Rex said:

 

That is not a small piece of ribbon!  It is the right side of a Red Cross Ehrenzeichen ribbon! 

 

The ÖKM.X ribbon is covering the left side of the Red Cross ribbon. 

 

 

Yes, you are right. Same as EK12/13 is covering the JK1908.

 

Regards

 

Christian

 

 

1 hour ago, Simius Rex said:

 

 

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Nicolas7507 said:

Thank you very much for the clarification and the additional info! 

 

Pfeffer sounds like a very good match. Did he receive a Pr. EK2 or MEZ?

 

Regarding the Tyrol/Red cross ribbon: I just cannot make out any green colour. I tried making a better photo, please have a look. 

 

Best regards

Nicolas

IMG_7706.jpg

 

The Tyrolian ribbon was a nonsense - sorry. It´s clear that it´s red cross WW1.

 

The problem is that the Schematismus is not very accurate. But there is missing too much. This is the reason why I am not happy with the match "Pfeffer".

 

It is possible that our guy did not serve in Bundesheer because he was dismissed in 1919/20 and called back to duty in 1938 as E-officer. He would have owned a 25-years service cross otherwise. So he would not be listed in any Schematismus. Hard to find.

 

It will remain an enigma....

 

Regards

 

Christian

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Nicolas7507 said:

Thank you anyway for your work and research. Much appreciated!

 

Best regards

Nicolas

You are welcomed, I always try to do my best, but not every effort leads to the goal.... 🤷‍♂️

 

Regards

 

Christian

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