The Prussian Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 Hello! A friend of mine asked me to show this photo. Unfortunately I can´t say anything about it. We see an asian soldier in Berlin. He seems to wear an uniform that looks very similar to a german one.But note the helmet! What do you think, please? Probably an asian officer à la suite in the german army? Which nationality could he be? Thanks a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dedehansen Posted July 25, 2021 Share Posted July 25, 2021 Hi, I believe it is a prince from Siam. Kind regards Andreas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted July 26, 2021 Author Share Posted July 26, 2021 Hello Andreas! Thanks a lot! I read, the king had a lot of sons... Unfortunately I couldn´t find anyone who could fit. In our Feldgrau-Forum I was told, he wears a cuirass from Kür.Rgt.2. But the helmet is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayern Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 I vote for a Chinese officer serving in a Prussian regiment. exists a pic of 1905 showing seven chinese officers enrolled in the German Army sic . Alamy stock pics. Four of the officers wear double breasted tunics in light blue with dark collar and pointed cuffs .as headress kepi in dark blue . three wear mounted troops equipment with breeches and riding boots ,sash and bandolier in the Prussian style ,also Prussian Shoulder boards .a fourh wears long trousers and only sash, infantry style . Three others wear Prussian Hussars uniforms but with a special colbac,with a large Chinese Draagon as badge. If you observes well the Pickelhaube of the asian officer pictured ,the Dragoon is on it 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolewts58 Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 (edited) 11 hours ago, dedehansen said: Hi, I believe it is a prince from Siam. Kind regards Andreas Not one of the Princes of Siam. That's not the Siamese Royal crest on the helmet. It the Imperial Chinese double-dragon insignia. My guess would be a member of the Chinese Imperial family attached to a Garde Cuirassier Regt. for training. Pre-1900 before all the trouble started in China. Perhaps he is one of Emperor Daoguang's 7 sons, born during the last quarter of the 19th century. The Chinese had a very large extended royal family with lots of minor princes. Edited July 26, 2021 by bolewts58 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreyC Posted July 26, 2021 Share Posted July 26, 2021 I know that there were quite a few foreigners in German regiments at that time, from Siam, Turkey and other states, some of who you´ll find in the German Ranglisten. But they would (dependent on their military status) wear either a German uniform or (as observers) the uniform of their respective country. What irritates me with this photo is the combination of German cavalry uniform and Chinese helmet. GreyC 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted July 26, 2021 Author Share Posted July 26, 2021 Thanks a lot for your help! I checked a few ranklists, but I couldn´t find any asian name... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayern Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 Grey C, dont get irritated, the external politic of German Empire contain many surprises Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted July 27, 2021 Author Share Posted July 27, 2021 bolewts58 Thanks a lot for your explanation! That really makes sense! Do you know any books about Chinese ( or asian in general) uniforms during that era (if possible in english language)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayern Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 The Prusian , Knotel and Sieg Uniformkunde contains reliable data about Chinese uniforms ,either Imperial or post 1911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted July 27, 2021 Author Share Posted July 27, 2021 Ah, yes you´re right. But it´s more an oversight then detailed uniform parts. I´m stil looking for a cuirassier helmet we see in the photo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolewts58 Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, The Prussian said: bolewts58 Thanks a lot for your explanation! That really makes sense! Do you know any books about Chinese ( or asian in general) uniforms during that era (if possible in english language)? I'm sorry I don't know off hand any books as it's really not an area of interest to me. I do know just from living here for the last 25 years that for the most part, the Siamese/Thais adopted British military uniforms in the 1890s as King Rama V (Chulalongkorn) became an avid Anglophile after his visit in 1897. He sent his sons to Eton, had his wives adopt British dress and hairstyles and introduced British school uniforms (still worn today). The dress uniforms still worn by the Thai military today are a direct influence from Britain. The Thai Royal Guard Regiments mirror very closely those of Great Britain. Except, because of the climate, the busby was replaced by a pith helmet with domed plume covering that mimics the British bearskin. The Thai Royal Household Cavalry dress very similarly to the British Household Cavalry with very similar style uniforms and plumed helmets (but no cuirass because of the heat). I think the same is true of countries that are former British colonies. The Indian, Pakistani, Sri Lankan, Malaysian and Burmese (Myanmar) retained British style uniforms after independence. I encountered an Indian Sgt-Major on a trip to Kashmir in 1996 who was a very "pukka" British-style NCO complete with handlebar mustache, swagger stick, British style beret and overall demeanor. He would have been quite at home on any parade ground in the UK. 6 minutes ago, bolewts58 said: Edited July 27, 2021 by bolewts58 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted July 27, 2021 Author Share Posted July 27, 2021 Hello! That's very interesting! I don't know anything about uniforms or military in general in that area. It was very helpful! Thanks a lot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolewts58 Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, The Prussian said: Hello! That's very interesting! I don't know anything about uniforms or military in general in that area. It was very helpful! Thanks a lot! I'm sorry to have gone a little off topic. But, here are a couple of photos just to show what I mean about the British influence on Thai uniforms. 1st Royal Thai Guard Regt. and 1st Royal Thai Cavalry Regt. A 1915 photo of King Rama VI (Vajiravudh) looking every bit the British Field Marshal with Queen Suvadhana. (As an aside, I worked for his daughter, Princess Benjaratana from 2005-2006 and received her 80th Birthday Commemorative Badge for service - strictly a case of being in the right placed at the right time. ;-D) Prince Chakrabongse, one of the sons of King Rama V (Chulalongkorn) and brother to King Rama VI (Vajiravudh) in the uniform of a Russian Hussar in 1906. He was an ADC and Imperial page to Tsar Nicholas II. He married a member of the Russian nobility. An oddball bit of info is that his great grandson is a rapper in New York signed to JayZ's record label. Edited July 27, 2021 by bolewts58 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted July 27, 2021 Author Share Posted July 27, 2021 Great photos, mate! The Royal Thai Cavalry look like swedish ones! The others are really british. The Hussar could be a soldier from the russian steppe... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArHo Posted July 27, 2021 Share Posted July 27, 2021 (edited) Hi to all and @The Prussian - I own two pictures presumably showing "Asian" men in German imperial uniforms. I do not want to hijack this thread without asking, so please let me know if it is OK to post them here too in the coming days, thanks ? Cheers ArHo Edited July 27, 2021 by ArHo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted July 27, 2021 Author Share Posted July 27, 2021 Of course, my friend, of course!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bayern Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 I am waiting too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex K Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 (edited) Just to continue (rama v and rama vi) Very much anglophiles, attached 2 coliurusations I did way back of King rama vi displaying on display very much British style I have ramav v in similar garb somewhere Edited July 28, 2021 by Alex K 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted July 28, 2021 Author Share Posted July 28, 2021 (edited) Hello Alex! A phantastic colour-art! Great job! Very beautiful photos!!! Edited July 28, 2021 by The Prussian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex K Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 Hi, thankyou, I try? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bolewts58 Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 Alex Very nicely done. The Thais would certainly like those. Rama VI was more British than the British. I believe he went to Eton and some of his brothers went to Harrow. His orders and decorations along with those of Rama V and Rama IV are on display at the Grand Palace in Bangkok. They also had a whole rack of Imperial German and Russian Orders. The showcases fill a room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex K Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 1 hour ago, bolewts58 said: Alex Very nicely done. The Thais would certainly like those. Rama VI was more British than the British. I believe he went to Eton and some of his brothers went to Harrow. His orders and decorations along with those of Rama V and Rama IV are on display at the Grand Palace in Bangkok. They also had a whole rack of Imperial German and Russian Orders. The showcases fill a room. Hi thanks, yes I've seen some of the displays of uniforms etc (online)mainly British and Thai, would like to have seen the imperial German ones also Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArHo Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 (edited) Well, as promised, nothing spectacular but here they are - though I have to add that I am honestly absolutely not sure about nr. 2 from Berlin, I do think that he does "look" very "asiatic", but please do correct me if this is a eurocentric visual misconception by me! He does wear the 1870/71 prussian commemorative war medal. I have to add that I do know nothing about these pictures from my "special"-box, my current research was about my main collecting field, but I would love to hear any opinions on these gents. Cheers! Edited July 28, 2021 by ArHo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted July 29, 2021 Author Share Posted July 29, 2021 Hi ArHo! That´s really hard to see. The first one is clear. But the second one? Could be... or not... But we may not forget, that the german army had a couple of non-europeans in their lines! Note this black gunner from Feldart.Rgt.7 (by the way, some of them have brandenbug cuffs...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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