Jump to content

Recommended Posts

This is a third class cross of the second type which was introduced in ca. 1862/63 and was abolished in 1869. From the pictures, it looks fine to me.

 

There were only two makers officially involved making these in the 1860s, from what I have heard, but I couldn't attribute it to the one or the other with only these pictures.

Edited by saschaw
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

4 hours ago, GODISHIGH said:

The seller mentions its marked "Wilh" between the arms and also states it's gold. 

All of these are gold, if they're authentic and officially produced. Prussia didn't change to gilt silver until almost 50 years after this type was obsolete. I'd love to see a picture of the mark! From what I have seen, many of these are unmarked... and "Wilh" cannot be what it reads. Maybe "AW"? Another common maker for such crosses could be "WILM", but not for the early type crosses, as far as I know.

 

 

17 hours ago, VtwinVince said:

(...) in what looks to be pristine condition.

With that flaw on the upper cross arm, "pristine" would not be my choice of words.

 

;)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't like the form of the crown at all.  Of course, it's a bad picture taken in low resolution.

 

I would never buy such an item if the seller is unable or unwilling to furnish proper photos.

 

These are 2 examples of small crowns on the legit Type II crosses I've seen...

Crown KO3 Modell 2.jpg

Small Crown M2.jpg

Edited by Simius Rex
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Graf said:

Usually, "WILM" mark was on  the bottom of lower arm -6 o'clock, not in between the arms

 

This information is inaccurate.  The mark of WILM was stamped on the medallion cylinder always.  It is NEVER found on the lower arm.  Sometimes, we find a second stamp on the cylinder: BERLIN  

 

JH Wilm produced the Crown Order 4th Class in gilt silver, 3rd Class in solid gold, and 2nd Class in solid gold.  

Wilm Cross.jpg

Wilm Punze.jpg

 

Wilm Cross 2.jpg

Edited by Triad08
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Graf said:

Usually, "WILM" mark was on  the bottom of lower arm -6 o'clock  ,not in between the arms

 

Please Note:  WILM is never on the 6 o'clock arm... Always on the cylinder!

 

I think the false information about the WILM stamp on the lower arm originates from E-Medals.  Mr. Turk deals in high-end orders and decorations, yet he doesn't know the difference between the WAGNER mark and the WILM mark.  Sad and disappointing!

 

Here are the listings where E-Medals incorrectly identifies the "W" (Wagner) on the lower arm as the WILM Ritzmark. 

 

https://www.emedals.com/prussia-kingdom-a-crown-order-iv-class-to-friedrich-alexander-kottenkamp-by-hermann-julius-wilm-96680

 

https://www.emedals.com/prussia-state-a-royal-order-of-the-crown-fourth-class-by-wilm-berlin-72067

 

https://www.emedals.com/prussia-state-a-royal-order-of-the-crown-fourth-class-by-wilm-berlin

 

 

Edited by Simius Rex
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi Simius Rex,

 

If your information is 100% correct it means It is not only eMedals who claims that. i have seen in few Dealers Sites

I am not collector of German Orders and if you are, as it looks like, enthusiastic German Orders collectors I will retreat my comments and cordially will accept your opiinin..till proven otherwise by other members

 

Regards

Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Graf said:

If your information is 100% correct it means It is not only eMedals who claims that. i have seen in few Dealers Sites

 

Hello.  Please read my post above and view the photos I have posted, and you will have your answer.  Perhaps you didn't see it earlier. 

 

To recap... your information about the WILM mark is totally inaccurate.  Also, I viewed the E-Medal links above and I am astonished that this dealer has incorrectly identified the Ritzmark "W" as that of J.H. Wilm.  Every experienced imperial period collector knows that this is the mark of Johann Wagner, Berlin.

 

I would strongly urge you to consult the proper reference books about such matters instead of relying solely on the questionable information provided by dealers.  I have visited E-Medals website many times and the number of errors I have read in his descriptions is quite alarming.  Regards.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hi GGODISHIGH,

I hope you made your mind regarding the Order

 

To my friends from USA Take it easy. Do not start a war I accept your comments

Those Forums are for constructive . exchange of opinion Cheers

Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, Graf said:

To my friends from USA Take it easy. Do not start a war I accept your comments

Forums are for constructive . exchange of opinions

 

There is a time and place for conjecture.  However, many times there are situations and topics that require an assertion to be supported with facts.

 

Asserting false information about hallmarks of a German order, for example, is not only counterproductive, but also gives rise to misinformation and confusion.  It serves no useful purpose in answering the OP's questions, nor does it constructively contibute to the topic in general.    

 

      

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Simius Rex
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...