Crude core on WS EK1

[SWE Erik]

Hello!

Hoping for some assistance since I can’t find another Wagner “WS” cross with this less detailed core. At least not a good match.

Any thoughts on the core? Good or bad?

 

Thanks

/Erik

[Peter Cornwell]

Hello Erik,

 

Difficult to say for sure from a single photo but that is an awful strike by anyone's standards. Even with the pressures of maintaining heavy wartime production demands that shocker should never have got through even the most rudimentary of quality control. That said, a clumsy core doesn't necessarily make it a wrong-un though, on balance, I would pass on that one. So to answer your question, it is clearly a bad core but whether it is a genuine WS or not I cannot say but remain extremely doubtful.

[SWE Erik]

Thank you Peter for your reply!

I would not be so tempted to buy if it wasn’t for the engraving on the reverse.
The back seems ok for me, but the pictures is not so good unfortunately and no more provided. Hinge and pin looks ok I think.

Adding a few screenshots. Would appreciate comments on the reverse as well, does it provide more confidence in the cross?

 

sorry, should have provided both front and rear in first post.

 

Erik

[Graf]

I restrain myself from engraved EKs, unless it comes from estate with a good provenance

 

Yes, it is always tempting to buy one of them

 

 

[Peter Cornwell]

Erik,

 

I now better understand the appeal of this cross to you. As you say, the hinge and pin look good. The maker's stamp (from what we can see of it) is positioned correctly for a WS otherwise it might equally well be taken for a crude We. As for the inscription, it's probably wise not to let this embellishment over-influence your opinion of the cross itself. As Graf has just said, if you're happy with the cross as it is then, without good provenance, an inscription is a bonus and should never be your main reason to buy.         

[SWE Erik]

Thank you Graf and Peter.

I think you give sound advice. Not easy to say if the engraving is true to the item or added for other reasons. I Might put a bid though if the price is fair, now that I feel more confident in the cross itself. The lack of detail was worrying but I believe I learnt it does not have to mean it is a fake. Just rarely seen. Unless I misunderstood.

 

Why would a fake have such well made frame and pin but fail with the core... Many copies show better details.

That I have been loosing some sleep over as well as why I can't find any others that look like it on the world wide web.

 

I did finally find one on this forum though that have some similarities. Having a less detailed crown (but not exactly alike) and having a similar 1914 style with big 1 in the number  (still a bit sharper in the details). posting link if interested: 

 

 

[Peter Cornwell]

Erik,

 

You're welcome. Glad that you are now feeling more confident about the cross (although I still wouldn't go for it myself). Researching past contributions to this forum is often all it takes to find an answer to our questions. Good luck with your bid.

[hagahr]

On 01/06/2022 at 00:40, SWE Erik said:

Hello!

Hoping for some assistance since I can’t find another Wagner “WS” cross with this less detailed core. At least not a good match.

Any thoughts on the core? Good or bad?

 

Thanks

/Erik

 

 Sorry to bump in Here, especially as I am not very active here so much.
But for your core : (I could not resist)
I call it the BuckShot crown core.
Every Version you buy from These cores it seems to be (buckshot) differently.
I am making a file with all ek2 1914 core designs on the marked to be found and this core is listed with 2 variations.
And can be found in ek1 as well
The core ( to me ) is cast iron and you're cross is a typical WS.
Core is also used in WE and A marked crosses's.
And I suspect in combination with many more different markings in ek2 crosses's

I like it very much hope my added picture are of any help. 
Regards Kay

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SWE Erik]

Very interesting to see and read your post Kay!

I think the crown in your 2A is rather similar, interesting to see the variation of these.

 

Somewhere on a dealers site I read that these were made from “modified 1870 cores” and I think early in the war.
I suppose it is the cores used to imprint in the sand that were modified, for the  mould making process.

There were likely many cores with slight variations used.

Thoughts on this are welcome

Best regards

Erik

Edited July 26, 2022 by SWE Erik

[Graf]

Hi Kay,

 

Nice work Well done

[hagahr]

I thank you fore the compliments. gladly shared .

 

the picture comes from my attempt to make a foto data file with all 1914 core's available on the marked .

based on the question ,? how many cores arte there ?

in regular time frames i present new findings on a German forum in a pinnned section.

 

so ,sure I would gladly share the info .

glad youre happy with it .

 

regards kay   

 

  

Edited November 18, 2022 by hagahr

[hagahr]

On 26/07/2022 at 21:25, SWE Erik said:

Very interesting to see and read your post Kay!

I think the crown in your 2A is rather similar, interesting to see the variation of these.

 

Somewhere on a dealers site I read that these were made from “modified 1870 cores” and I think early in the war.
I suppose it is the cores used to imprint in the sand that were modified, for the  mould making process.

There were likely many cores with slight variations used.

Thoughts on this are welcome

Best regards

Erik

wel there two core to be seen as A types .

I separated them in two numbers ,( the 2 ABC ) and the 12 abc .

the 2abc  represent  A buckshot crown as the crown looks like being shot with buckshot ammo  .

and the 12 abc  represents  a crown that actually is very simmilar to the 1870 A type crown .

i post the pictures below .

hope you like it .

and sorry for reacting so late, i am not so active on forums so much as i was in the past .

K

 

 

[Dansson]

A really nice A14 type EK1 here. These are very early and produced around 1914.