Saxony Medal Bar Zahlmeister Otto Körner

[JayBuck]

Good day

 

I'm trying to verify this medal group from the Kingdom of Saxony. I believe it belonged to Otto Körner who was Zahlmeister Schutztruppe in German East Africa, 1892 - 1901. This information is from an engraved plaque on a Schutztruppe Farewell Gift dated 1901. Colonial Medal with clasps for  "German East Africa 1896" and "German East Africa 1900” supports that as does the Rangliste der Koniglich Preußischen Armee 1901. 

 

I have also found an Otto Körner listed as Zahlmeister "Hussars Regiment 'von Zieten' (Brandenburg) No. 3” in the Rangliste der Koniglich Preußischen Armee 1895. I'm assuming that this is the same guy before he was posted overseas. In which case the dates on the Schutztruppe Farewell Gift 1901 are incorrect. 

 

Now we have the area where I'm seeking further assistance. As well as the 1914 EK2 he has awards from Saxony as follows: 

Saxon Order of Merit Knight's Cross 2nd Class with Swords

Albert Order Knight's Cross 2nd Class with Swords

These suggest front line service during WW1. But I can't find out which branch or regiment. I'm guessing that these are not the sort of awards granted to a Zahlmeister, or are they? 

Saxon Long Service Award for Officers - 25 years presumably includes his time with Schutztruppe.

And the Austro-Hungarian Gold Merit Cross with Crown? How would that fit in?

 

Additional information

born 10 May 1868 Tuttendorf, Saxony

1938 - listed as Oberzahlmeister außer Dienst (retired) - Gelnhausen Amtsbezirk (Resident’s Address Register)

1950 - Death: 16 Dec 1950 in Gelnhausen, Hesse

[Deruelle]

Hello,

 

I have a doubt about the name of your medal bar. How can a Saxon officer made his duty in a Prussian unit ? Especially before the war.

I have another doubt. Your officer served in 1897, explain the Centenary medal. But why is he received the SA3bX and SV3bX (for Leutnant and Oberleutnant) during WW1 and the SDA 25 ? Something disturb me here. I will continue my research.

 

Christophe

[Triadoro]

Hello. I have to agree with Christophe. 

 

This officer was awarded a 25-year Saxon Service Cross YET only received two Saxon combat awards in WW1 that were typically awarded to junior officers!  A Saxon officer serving 25 years is, at the very least, a major if not a lieutenent colonel.

 

Then you have an Austrian Gold Merit Cross with Crown on War Ribbon... typically awarded to German field surgeons serving in the Southern Theater and the Balkans during WW1.

 

In light of the above, how does a Prussian Crown Order enter into the picture?

 

A lot of question marks here...  

 

Regards.

Edited June 22 by Triadoro

[JayBuck]

Yes many questions which is why I post the group. My understanding is that Schutztruppe come under Prussian command where he was a Zahlmeister. He is listed in the Rangliste der Koniglich Preußischen Armee 1901 with FW2 after his name. He is listed again in the 1910 Rangliste der Koniglich Preußischen Armee as OberZahlmeister with IR24 with additional awards after his name. See picture below. 

 

The Saxon awards,  EK2 and Austrian Gold Merit Cross with Crown on War Ribbon are all WW1 as you both point out. So either this is a totally made up fantasy group or the gentleman concerned held some role, other than that of Zahlmeister, during WW1 with the Saxon Army. I have tried to find his records in Dresden without success. 

 

The final puzzle is the listing in the listing in the Amtsbezirk for 1938 for the town of Gelnhausen, where I know his wife came from, as Oberzahlmeister außer Dienst (retired). I am pretty sure that this is the same Otto Körner who is listed in the 1901 and 1910 Rangeliste. It is what he did during WW1 that is a puzzle. He must have served in some capacity somewhere in the German Army but I have not been able find any reference that I can definitely say is him. 

 

Körner is not a common name. There is one Körner in the post war rangliste 

1924 - 

 

Körner is not a common name. There is one Körner in the post war rangliste 

1924 - Artillery Regiment 4 with a number of Saxon awards

1927 - Possibly the same man as above 

 

I'm still trying to understand the abbreviations for the awards so these two entries may be totally irrelevant. 

 

Also I have heard that the appointment of Zahlmeister was not used in the Army of Saxony. If that is correct what term was used?

Thanks 

 

[Triadoro]

The two officers you found in the postwar ranklists are the future Generalmajor Gerhard Körner and the future Generalleutnant Paul Körner, both of whom were St Henry Knights.  Your bar has nothing to do with either of them.  There did exist a Generalintendant Körner but he was not Saxon.

 

I would suggest you post a picture of the reverse of this bar at the earliest opportunity.  The back of medal bar often says more about the bar's legitimacy than the front.  

[VtwinVince]

I agree, an image of the back and close-ups of the clasps on the colonial medal would help.

[JayBuck]

Your assistance is most helpful. So I can dismiss the two post war entries. Good. 

And for the first time I have looked at the rear of the bar. I think we can dismiss it as a put together example. 

 

So if I go back to the 1910 Rangeliste, which is the listing for Oberzahlmeister Körner in IR24 what are the decorations that he should have? +4, FW2 . Could the Miniature Chain be correct?

[Triadoro]

Garnisonverwaltung-Oberinspektor Körner's awards prior to the War were Kronenorden 4. Klasse, Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen 1. Klasse, Preussische Dienstauszeichnung 2. Klasse, SW Afrika Denkmünze, and Erinnerungsmedaille 1897.  He may very well have received the Dienstauszeichnung 1. Klasse after 1914 as represented on your chain but the AEZ1, which he already had prior to the War, is absent. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 23 by Triadoro

[VtwinVince]

I'm not keen on the construction of this bar, or the Gefechtsspangen.

[Leutwein]

On 24/06/2022 at 00:23, Triadoro said:

Garnisonverwaltung-Oberinspektor Körner's awards prior to the War were Kronenorden 4. Klasse, Allgemeines Ehrenzeichen 1. Klasse, Preussische Dienstauszeichnung 2. Klasse, SW Afrika Denkmünze, and Erinnerungsmedaille 1897.  He may very well have received the Dienstauszeichnung 1. Klasse after 1914 as represented on your chain but the AEZ1, which he already had prior to the War, is absent. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Your Körner does not match!!!

 

Below you will find the "Stammrolle" of paymaster Otto Körner!

 

 

Paymaster Körner has received his DA 1 before 1902 and a KO4 for retirement is not untypical for a paymaster! Also not for a saxon paymaster in colonial service😉

 

You wrote also: "Then you have an Austrian Gold Merit Cross with Crown on War Ribbon... typically awarded to German field surgeons serving in the Southern Theater and the Balkans during WW1. "

 

Really?? There were also for example some awards to members of the navy cabinet in Berlin......

 

Regards