Signum Laudis Ribbon Query.

[Farkas]

Hello Gents,

I have a question about the correct ribbon for a Karl Signum Laudis…

 

I was lucky enough to pick up a nice selection that may or may not be related, i of course prefer to think they are 😊

Included amongst it are the four below.

Both Signum Laudis came with red ribbons and the 1908 was without a ribbon. As can be seen I have replaced the red ribbon on the Karl SL.

As it was 👆 

As it is now 👇

 

As a rule of thumb I’ve considered the red to be a civil ribbon and the ‘bravery’ ribbon used on these to be the military ribbon.

When I checked though, the way I understood what I’ve now read is :

A red ribbon for peacetime awards.

A ‘bravery’ ribbon for wartime awards.

 

In that case as Karl Signum Laudis were issued 1916 onward they would all be on a wartime ribbon wouldn’t they? 🤷‍♂️
 

So… pleae can someone clarify whether Red is a ‘Civil’ or ‘In peacetime’ ribbon & was I right to swap it or should I have left it? 
 

cheers 

tony 🍻

[graham]

Tony,

I believe those awarded with the red ribbon were awarded in 'peace time only'. So to answer your question, all awards of the Karl Signum Laudis medal would have been on a 'military (striped) ' ribbon.

 

Nice awards by the way.

[Farkas]

3 hours ago, graham said:

So to answer your question, all awards of the Karl Signum Laudis medal would have been on a 'military (striped) ' ribbon.

Thanks Graham 🍻

 

3 hours ago, graham said:

Nice awards by the way.

🍻 It’s not often I pick up nice looking pieces, I’m more inclined to go after the ugly knocked about ones and was pleasantly surprised to get these. They were all listed separately, I hoped to get 1 or 2 not 8! Maybe because it was the end of the month or because it’s coming up to Christmas… no one else bid on any of these & I got them at a bargain price.

 

The ribbons are all very similar, I like to think all are related, maybe two sets…

 

The separate two are bronze, I must be missing a Karl Truppen Kreuz at least 👇

 

If they do all belong together then I’d need to add the KTK and I’m guessing something silver too 🤷‍♂️ 
it would be a good looking bar 😁

Cheers

tony 

 

 

 

[Christian1962]

@Tony:

 

Please mind following, if you would construct a medal bar:

 

1. the "Jubiläumskreuz 1908" would have a wrong ribbon. For an officer it would be white with a red stripe on both sides. Same for the "Jubiläumsmedaille 1898" - the military version would have a full red ribbon.

 

2. "Tapferkeitsmedaille" would be wrong too. An officer owning a peacetime "Signum Laudis" from Franz Joseph could not earn a "Bronzene" oder "Kleine silberne Tapferkeitsmedaille" in WW1, because they were just for enlisted men, NCOs and ensigns.

 

3. With the "Kriegserinnerungsmedaille" (instituted in 1933) and the "Tiroler Landesdenkmünze" (instituted in 1928) it would be a interwar medal bar.

 

4. Referring the Karl-Signum-Laudis: I would think that there were no issued medals with a red ribbon. I have been reading through all Verlautbarungsblätter from WW1 and can´t remember any awards with a red ribbon. There were just few from Franz Joseph which are documented. But you never know... it would have been a very rare exeption.

 

Regards

 

Christian

Edited November 5, 2023 by Christian1962

[Farkas]

On 05/11/2023 at 07:41, Christian1962 said:

@Tony:

 

Please mind following, if you would construct a medal bar:

 

1. the "Jubiläumskreuz 1908" would have a wrong ribbon. For an officer it would be white with a red stripe on both sides. Same for the "Jubiläumsmedaille 1898" - the military version would have a full red ribbon.

 

2. "Tapferkeitsmedaille" would be wrong too. An officer owning a peacetime "Signum Laudis" from Franz Joseph could not earn a "Bronzene" oder "Kleine silberne Tapferkeitsmedaille" in WW1, because they were just for enlisted men, NCOs and ensigns.

 

3. With the "Kriegserinnerungsmedaille" (instituted in 1933) and the "Tiroler Landesdenkmünze" (instituted in 1928) it would be a interwar medal bar.

 

4. Referring the Karl-Signum-Laudis: I would think that there were no issued medals with a red ribbon. I have been reading through all Verlautbarungsblätter from WW1 and can´t remember any awards with a red ribbon. There were just few from Franz Joseph which are documented. But you never know... it would have been a very rare exeption.

 

Regards

 

Christian

Thanks Christian,

your insight is always appreciated.

 

Talk of the different ribbon for the military reminded me that there was a subtle difference to the designs of the Civil & Military medal. 
 

I learned from a Gent on here before that one has AVST, the other has AVSTR. and I’m pretty sure that the ones with AVST are the Civil and that is what mine here has…

 

So I think I’ll put them like this for now

Cheers Gents

tony 🍻

[Christian1962]

@tony:

your are right, there were three differences between the military and the civil issue:

 

FRANC. IOS. I. D. G. IMP. AUSTR. REX BOH. ETC. AC. AP. REX HUNG. - military

FRANC. IOS. I. D. G. IMP. AUST. REX BOH. ETC. ET. REX AP. HUNG. - civil

 

Regards

 

Christian

 

[1812 Overture]

In 1916, when the war was already halfway through, how could there be the Carl Medal in peacetime?

How dare you ask such a question

Here's a picture for you to learn~

[Christian1962]

Signum Laudis was not generally awarded with a war ribbon because of wartime. It depended on the classification of the officer's job. Officers in duty in the homeland were awarded sometimes Signum laudis on peacetime ribbons. That is sure for the years 1914 till 1916 for Franz Joseph. And as I wrote I am not sure if there were some few bestowed by Karl.

 

And please be so kind and don´t use crazy Hitler pics here - it is all, but not gentlemanlike...

 

Regards

 

Christian

 

[1812 Overture]

On 08/11/2023 at 22:26, Christian1962 said:

Signum Laudis was not generally awarded with a war ribbon because of wartime. It depended on the classification of the officer's job. Officers in duty in the homeland were awarded sometimes Signum laudis on peacetime ribbons. That is sure for the years 1914 till 1916 for Franz Joseph. And as I wrote I am not sure if there were some few bestowed by Karl.

 

And please be so kind and don´t use crazy Hitler pics here - it is all, but not gentlemanlike...

 

Regards

 

Christian

 

Hallo Freund, frohe Weihnachten! Gestatten Sie mir, hier eine Nebenfrage zu stellen, wie viele Stufen gibt es in der österreichischen Heimwehr-Medaille 1934? Es unterdrückt den Kommunismus, aber es hat nichts mit NZ zu tun, oder?

[Christian1962]

@Overture: many thanks for your Season Greetings - I send them back and wish you all the best for the coming year!

 

I suppose you mean the so-called "Starhemberg-Adler"? It had just one class. You could achieve it for fighting against the socialist february-riots from 12 - 14th of Febuary 1934. A clasp was awarded for the fighting against the nazi-riots from 25 - 27th of July 1934. It was bestowed to members of the "Heimwehren", which were a kind of private party military association, lead by Prince Starhemberg. They were political right, some catholic, some facistoid.

 

 

Regards

Christian