EK 1914 IC 1914 with winged A

[Josef Rietveld]

Gentlemen a question. I own a vaulted IC 1st Class 1914 hallmarked 950 on the center backside. on the pin near to the hinge is an extremly tiny mark (maker's mark?) that shows an A with wings on both sides. Sorry, it is so small, that i can't do any pics. Has anybody of you seen such a winged A before.

regards

Haynau

[JensF.]

Beautiful EK! Can you post a pic of the back?

[Bob Hunter]

So far so good. Let's see a closeup of the mark.

[Mike K]

Hi Haynau,

I have not see the mark you describe but I have a "moving" "A" (looks like a beck-to-front E joined to an A to form a monogram) on an "FR" flat-back 1914EK1.

Some straight-on obverse and reverse images would be great - have a go with the mark as well if you could please!

Regards

Mike

[joe campbell]

mike-

i have one like your flying A on a 1914

EK 2. yours is the only other one i've seen.

lovely!

joe

[Josef Rietveld]

Beautiful EK! Can you post a pic of the back?

Finally I put a magnyfying glass in front of my camera lens. here are the results. I eamined the IC again and found a similiar Makers Mark (?) on the eyelet aswell.

Haynau

Edited May 15, 2006 by haynau

[Josef Rietveld]

@jens, pic from the backside

Haynau

[notned]

Haynau, thats a very nice cross!

and certainly an unusual maker mark too!

I have a question in regards to the vaulting...

I would imagine that shaping the core piece would be quite an undertaking, so i would think that there would be a supplier who did this and perhaps supplied many jewellers...

Am i on the right track? or did each jeweller 'vault' their own flat cores from the manufacturer?

Thanks for showing this unusual maker mark..one i have never seen before.

Kind regards

Paul

[joe campbell]

haynau and mike-

two different MM's entirely,

and both QUITE unique. my

speculation is that they are unrelated.

love 'em both!

joe

[Mike K]

Hi Haynau,

Great image of a marking I've certainly never seen before. Thanks for going to the effort, it was very worthwhile imo. I'd certainly agree with Joe that your marking it totally unrelated to my "flying A"!

I'm putting out some feelers with some Euro silver specialists to see if they can come up with anything. That little A to the left of the stylised marking (initially I though maybe a JHW monogram) may have some Austrian connotation. I'll report back if/when I hear more.

Paul, it's my feeling that any vaulting would have been done at an early stage of manufacture, most probably before assembly. If they were vaulted post assembly the hand filed edges would never line up and the cross would be more prone to splitting at the seams due to the stress induced by the vaulting. From what I've see, it's normally only the thinner pressed cores that are vaulted - not the earlier cast iron cores which are prone to cracking even on flat-backed examples!

Regards

Mike

[Daniel Murphy]

Haynau,

You have a most beautiful and unique EK1.

Mike,

There are indeed cast cores used in the convex crosses. I see more cast cores than I see stamped from thin metal. The manufacturer just had to cast them in a different mold. It is next to impossible (or maybe impossible) to heat a cast iron core and bend it. Even if possible, this would not only be labor intensive, but would result in a lot of wastage and possible damage to the core. Therefore it is just not practical from the stance of manpower and the neccesary increase in cost to the buyer. Why do it the hard way?

By 1914 the metallurgy had been much improved since 1813 and 1870, consequently you see less cracking of the cores. You do see it but it is more caused by external stresses (heavy use and misuse ) than internal. I can post a half a dozen vaulted crosses with cast cores from my collection if need be. You have to understand that a person who purchased a cross from a top quality manufacturer, expected top quality construction and materials. He was after all paying for it. If you bought a cheaper piece, you got cheaper construction. This is where the stamped thin steel cores and one piece crosses fall in. In short you got what you paid for. Here is a vaulted cross from a recent thread with it's cracked IRON core. There is also a link to the thread.

Rothe and Neffe EK1

Edited May 15, 2006 by Daniel Murphy

[Josef Rietveld]

Gentlemen, I have to announce that a friend of mine found the solution to my little hallmark-problem on the back of my vaulted IC 1914.

The unknown makers mark turned out to be an austrian import hallmark on silver items from 1902-1922.

The little letter A on the left side of the hallmark (looks like an standing arrow) indicates that the item was imported and rehallmarked (repunched) in Vienna.

this hallmark is very uncommon for orders and decoration from WW1.

My friend thinks, that the IC must be an very early one from before 1915. at this early stage of the war the authorities maybe insisted on import hallmarks, later on came a swell of foreign (mostly german) decorations to austria and knowbody cared anymore for import hallmarks.

Does anybody know when vaulted IC came into vogue?

regards

Haynau