France French Foreign Legion "EXTREM-ORIENT"

[isonzo]

Hello,

I have got these parts from private. I was told that the owner was a german soldier who fought after the WII for the French in Asia. I know nothing about this part of collecting military and so may I ask you on the one hand if there is in general interesting in this kind and on the other what is a fair price to ask for (all together).

Thank you very much for your help and with best regards

isonzo

Edited May 11, 2006 by isonzo

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

I am embarresed to say, my knowledge of old Legion stuff is basically zero, but this guy was a Sgt, stayed longer than 5 years- less than 10, was in the Cavalry regiment (armoured) and seems to have gotten the "standard" rack of medals.

A nice group!

[isonzo]

Hello Chris,

thank you for the first reply.

Best

isonzo

[Heidelberger]

Hallo

h?tte Intresse an den sachen , habe auch im Fall eines Tausches einiges vorhanden.

Bitte um R?ckmeldung

Mfg

oliver

[Hauptmann]

Hello,

I have got these parts from private. I was told that the owner was a german soldier who fought after the WII for the French in Asia. I know nothing about this part of collecting military and so may I ask you on the one hand if there is in general interesting in this kind and on the other what is a fair price to ask for (all together).

Thank you very much for your help and with best regards

isonzo

Hi Isonzo,

Very nice grouping. If you sell it though please try to keep it all together as a group. It would be a shame to see it split up. Any chance of getting any more info, the name of the soldier, etc? That would be great to add to it and keep with it as well.

To be honest, this is the first good sized grouping I've ever seen from the Legion. They're a fascinating group and make a terrific study. Basically, once a Legionaire, always a Legionaire. You volunteer and join them and basically you belong to them for the term of the enlistment... with the agreement that they are totally within their rights to send you on what amount to suicide missions where you are not expected to survive.

You are "expected" to learn enough French to get by and to be able to understand your superiors... basically within your first couple of weeks. And I mean you are "expected" to learn... in otherwords, you learn or else!

If you have a shady or criminal background... no problem. They give you a new identity, French passport, etc. If you stick it through and then decide to "retire" at the end of your tour you have the option of keeping your new identity with all proper papers, etc, or reverting back to your original identity.

You are also by my understanding, given a phone number which you are to call if you ever get into trouble and they will send help. They made General Norman Schwarzkopf an honorary Legionaire and he was given a card with such a number. And he was told... if you're ever in trouble, anywhere, anytime... simply call that number and they will come and extricate him from said trouble.

They go through some of the toughest training in the world... and if you die during training... c'est la vie! All part of the contract.

Just an amazing organization.

Best of luck with it,

Dan

[Paul L Murphy]

Isonzo,

Can you post a closeup photo of the three diamond badges and the shoulder straps. Basically I want to see if they have a number in the centre of the grenade, in which case they are very desirable indeed.

Over 40% of the people who served in the Legion in the late 40's and early 50's were German. Most of these were not fleeing war criminals but were young men with no job prospects in a country with a destroyed economy. I have a number of interesting medal and document groups in my own collection to such former Legionnaires.

I would agree with the previous comment that this should be kept together. The unit badges which he has are the 1st Regiment Etrangere de Cavalrie (oval shaped), the 2nd Regiment Etrangere de Cavalrie (round badge) and a badge for one of the Amphibious Groups of the 1 REC (the crab shaped badge).

If the shoulder straps and the diamond shaped cloth badges have numerals in the grenade then this group is worth at least EUR350. If there are no numerals in the grenades it is worth about EUR300 or so.

Best regards,

Paul

[Heidelberger]

350 euro ??? in was f?r einer Traumwelt lebt ihr ? zuerst sollte man mal kl?ren ob es orginale aus der zeit sind , dann sollte man den wert kennen. Interesant wieviel leute sich auf einmal melden , obwohl der Beitrag von letztem Jahr ist !

Mfg

oliver

[Paul L Murphy]

Oliver,

It may have escaped your notice but this is an English language forum. I do not speak German but I have translated your comments using an online translator which yielded the following : -

"In what for a dream world live does you? first one should times clarify whether it orginale from the time is, then one should that worth. Interesant how much people announce themselves at one time, although the contribution is from last year"

Even taking into account the way in which the translator mangles things I find your comments offensive. I know enough about Foreign Legion material to know that these are from the Indochina time period, however without any documentation to link them to an individual the only scarce items are the 1 GA badge and the shoulder straps and diamond badges if they have numerals. The other items, while nice to look at, are common and easy to obtain. Hence my values are based on the individual values of the single items. I would be very interested to hear your views since you obviously disagree with mine.

Regards,

Paul

[Ed_Haynes]

I agree with Paul.

[Gerd Becker]

350 euro ??? in was f?r einer Traumwelt lebt ihr ? zuerst sollte man mal kl?ren ob es orginale aus der zeit sind , dann sollte man den wert kennen. Interesant wieviel leute sich auf einmal melden , obwohl der Beitrag von letztem Jahr ist !

Mfg

oliver

Oliver, erst einmal, das ist sicher nicht der Ton, der hier sehr gern gesehen wird. Ich denke, du bist sicher in der Lage, den Mitgliedern hier ein wenig Respekt entgegenzubringen und deine Meinung anders zu formulieren. Davon abgesehen ist dies ein englisches Forum, deshalb w?re es nicht nur nett, sondern auch verst?ndlicher f?r alle nicht des Deutschen m?chtigen Mitgliedern, wenn Du in Englisch schreiben w?rdest.

Gerd

[Chris Boonzaier]

If you have a shady or criminal background... no problem. They give you a new identity, French passport, etc. If you stick it through and then decide to "retire" at the end of your tour you have the option of keeping your new identity with all proper papers, etc, or reverting back to your original identity.

You are also by my understanding, given a phone number which you are to call if you ever get into trouble and they will send help. They made General Norman Schwarzkopf an honorary Legionaire and he was given a card with such a number. And he was told... if you're ever in trouble, anywhere, anytime... simply call that number and they will come and extricate him from said trouble.

Dan

Not really, to the above, but it would be nice

[Heidelberger]

I agree with Paul.

entschuldigt bitte meine sprache , es war falsch gew?hlt.

in next time i write in english ,Smile

[Ed_Haynes]

entschuldigt bitte meine sprache , es war falsch gew?hlt.

in next time i write in english ,Smile

Actually, I agree even more with his final paragraph than with the linguistic note.

[Hauptmann]

Not really, to the above, but it would be nice

Hi Chris,

Sorry... if this is incorrect but I got it off what I thought was an excellent documentary on The Legion from either The History Channel or The Military Channel several months back. I believe I have it on tape somewhere in my collection now, but it's on one of the tapes I haven't cataloged yet. It went into a good deal of detail from start to finish on how folks join, the procedures for recruits, etc, all the way through someones enlistment and also showing some who have been in for looooong periods of time... they've made the Legion their home. Speaking of homes, it even stated that they have a rest home where Legionaires can go to spend their final days if they so choose.

Update: I just did a quick Google search and found this... it sounds familiar and may actually have been the one so it may have been the Discovery Channel:

http://www.napoleonguide.com/doco_foreign.htm

I'll try to get my tapes cataloged in the next week or two if possible as work has been pretty heavy of late and I'm far behind in getting this done... much as I would like to finish it. I'd like to watch it again as it as fascinating. They interviewed Legionaires both past and present and showed training sessions for both raw recruits as well as seasoned members of the Legion.

And now... back to our original reply.

I admit I'm far from an expert in this area... it's something I've had a passing interest in and I'd read a few books many years ago... but mostly basic stuff on some of their military operations and such. This documentary gave far more info than I'd ever seen before.

And they did indeed make those statements, both about the new identities, passports, French citizenship as well as the phone number. And they showed either photos or video (can't remember which now) of the presentation to General Schwarzkopf and he was one of those interviewed for the program and it was him, personally, on video, who told the story of the presentation and the fact that they gave him this card and what he was told it was for. And I've no reason to doubt the General's word on any of that.

So again, if I got anything wrong many apologies to all.

Dan

Edited August 24, 2006 by Hauptman

[Chris Boonzaier]

Hi,

you can get French citizenship, but only when rectified and with your original name. If you are on the run from the law for something serious... dont bother trying to join. It has not been a "no questions asked" deal for decades. They filter out the wierdoes, whackos and wankers right from the start. there is no keeping your papers or legion name when you leave.

Applying for the citizenship is rather long and complicated, a lot of guys give up on that right away (I did when i found out I had been throwing away my tax return papers for 4 years and they wanted the tax returns as proof of something).

You may always remain a legionnaire... but when you are gone you are outa sight and outa mind. there is no secret helpline or tel number. Puylobier you mentioned is a retirement home for ex combattants and old as god legionnaires, there are a couple more, but they are vey institutionalised.

Its a nice thing to have done when you are young, but when you leave it is a closed chapter and thats that.

best

Chris

[Paul L Murphy]

Hi Dan,

I have been an avid collector of Legion insignia for almost 20 years now. A few books that I would recommend are as follows : -

For the History of the Legion

Legionnaire by Simon Murray (still a classic account of the Legion during the Algerian conflict)

Life in the French Foreign Legion by Evan McGorman (strips away a lot of the BS about what it is like to serve in the Legion nowadays)

The French Foreign Legion, A Complete History by Douglas Porsch (a good standard Legion history)

Le Livre D'Or de la Legion Etrangere (A good idea of how the Legion sees itself and its history)

Insignia etc.

La Legion Etrangere et ses insignes, published by S&T in 1990

Le Grand Livre des Insignes de la Legion Etrangere by Tibor Szecsko

If you want a good book on the French involvement in Indochina I would recommend Street Without Joy by Bernard Fall. For Dien Bien Phu, Fall's "Hell in a Very Small Place" is still unbeatable.

Best regards,

Paul

Edited August 24, 2006 by Paul L Murphy

[isonzo]

Hello,

thanks to you all for your comments.

That is really an interested theme of military history.

About the ensemble I have to say that there are only still the pieces you can see in the picture. The rest I have dealt in the past.

Even I am not an expert on this material I even cam say that they are all original. Specially the one GA badge, because it definitely had a number ? that I know for sure, because this was the first thing my collector friend took a look if the number is there or not. He told me (what you all know) that there are a lot of ?second? pieces, but not the awarded ones. If the shoulder straps and diamond badges had a number or not I can not remember.

Also thanks for the price advice and the tip for literatures.

If there is still someone interested in the three pieces, please let me know.

Best to you all

isonzo

[Heidelberger]

Hello,

thanks to you all for your comments.

If there is still someone interested in the three pieces, please let me know.

Best to you all

isonzo

You get a mail from me

reguards from germany

[Hauptmann]

Hi,

you can get French citizenship, but only when rectified and with your original name. If you are on the run from the law for something serious... dont bother trying to join. It has not been a "no questions asked" deal for decades. They filter out the wierdoes, whackos and wankers right from the start. there is no keeping your papers or legion name when you leave.

Applying for the citizenship is rather long and complicated, a lot of guys give up on that right away (I did when i found out I had been throwing away my tax return papers for 4 years and they wanted the tax returns as proof of something).

You may always remain a legionnaire... but when you are gone you are outa sight and outa mind. there is no secret helpline or tel number. Puylobier you mentioned is a retirement home for ex combattants and old as god legionnaires, there are a couple more, but they are vey institutionalised.

Its a nice thing to have done when you are young, but when you leave it is a closed chapter and thats that.

best

Chris

Hi Chris,

Again, many apologies. I went primarily by what I thought at the time was a very in depth and accurate documentary. Should have known I'd end up with a case of "foot in mouth disease".

Again I don't claim to be an expert or anything near it. Just a passing interest. But thanks much for setting the record straight.

Dan

[Hauptmann]

Hi Dan,

I have been an avid collector of Legion insignia for almost 20 years now. A few books that I would recommend are as follows : -

For the History of the Legion

Legionnaire by Simon Murray (still a classic account of the Legion during the Algerian conflict)

Life in the French Foreign Legion by Evan McGorman (strips away a lot of the BS about what it is like to serve in the Legion nowadays)

The French Foreign Legion, A Complete History by Douglas Porsch (a good standard Legion history)

Le Livre D'Or de la Legion Etrangere (A good idea of how the Legion sees itself and its history)

Insignia etc.

La Legion Etrangere et ses insignes, published by S&T in 1990

Le Grand Livre des Insignes de la Legion Etrangere by Tibor Szecsko

If you want a good book on the French involvement in Indochina I would recommend Street Without Joy by Bernard Fall. For Dien Bien Phu, Fall's "Hell in a Very Small Place" is still unbeatable.

Best regards,

Paul

Hi Paul,

Will definitely have to try and find at least some of these... perhaps through inter library loan. Unless I'd find some really cheap I'd probably not buy them as again it's a passing interest but I'm trying to stick primarily with my Soviet and then the Warsaw Pact followed by the few other areas I still have. Just too many great areas out there to get into. But I'm always open to learning about new things or revisiting areas such as the Legion. But I think I'll be taking such documentaries with much more than a grain of salt from now on.

Thanks much for the recommendations. I'll take the list over and see if my librarian can find me some or all of them.

Dan

[Gerd Becker]

entschuldigt bitte meine sprache , es war falsch gew?hlt.

in next time i write in english ,Smile

Excellent! By the way, welcome to the forum

[Bob]

It has not been a "no questions asked" deal for decades. They filter out the wierdoes, whackos and wankers right from the start.

...but I thought you.... ehm, never mind

[Ed_Haynes]

A rather . . . well . . . disturbing . . . set of exchanges here.

"Gentlemen," gentlemen, "Gentlemen".

[Bob]

Oh come on, is ironical joke not acceptable anymore? :unsure:

[VALERY]

Bonjour, Hi, Guten Tag;

I discovered with a great interest this grouping from a Legionnaire, in fact a sergeant who served in two french foreign legion cavalry units. The silver color means a mounted branch in the french army (armor, cavalry, transportation, maintenance etc...)

Fourag?res (lanyards) are awards of the 1st REC (Foreign Cavalry Rgt)

The DI on the leather pocket hanger is the 2nd REC. I think he has been assigned to the 2nd REC after his time at the the 1st REC and he worn his former insignias on the shoulder straps as an highly fighting unit veteran distinctive sign.

Shoulder straps are really interesting. The two DI's pinned on the left one (unofficial used) depict a previous tour in Indochina with the crabs. The 1st REC insignia sounds to be a nice locally made DI. The little crab is the insignia of the 1st independant group belonging to the 1st REC. Crab was the nickname of the Cargo Carrier M29 used in the swamp. This insignia seems to be Drago made.

Check however there is no R76 or R78 but I don't think.

The ribbon bars seem to be locally made too. You wear the bar on the left side, the left side is the TOE war cross (ribbon red-grey-red) side.

The pocket patches are really nice too like the shoulder rank insignias too.

That's a really beautiful grouping of a brave legionnaire who fought during the Indochina war. Many books are relative to crabs and alligators, but unfortunately they are in french.

Hope I could bring you a little bit more of knowledge on this beautiful grouping!

Cheers

Valery