Too much confusion....

[Chris Boonzaier]

Okay....

1) Why is this regt so interesting? (for some)

2) Few things are exciting as the fighting around Douaumont in mid 1916 (from a research point of view....) but I can find no mention of the b.R.I.R. 16 being there....

THAAAAAT is a mystery I would love to have solved.

[Gerd Becker]

Wasn?t the b.R.I.R 16 the Regiment, old Adolf served in?

[Les]

Wasn?t the b.R.I.R 16 the Regiment, old Adolf served in?

Gerd,

Richtig!

That was his unit, and Adolf never fought or served around Verdun.

Les

[Chris Boonzaier]

Although, looking at the doc, his LAST unit during the war was the 16th, his present unit (when this was filled out) was the 2. I.R..

His EK2 doc was 1917.

I assume he was serving in another unit at Verdun (June 1916 at Douaumont makes me think 1st or 2nd b.I.D., maybe at a push Alpenkorps) and then transfered to the 16. b.R.I.R. after his first wound.

best

chris

[Gerd Becker]

Les and all,

do you know, where he did fight and where and how Hitler was wounded?

I often wondered, where his woundbadge and the document went... Also, if he only had one or two WB?s or dozens, for every suit one?

Gerd

Edited May 23, 2006 by Gerd Becker

[Guest Rick Research]

I have NEVER seen the "advance paperwork" for a 1918 Wound Badge before.

You've got several nice wound badge documents themselves with times and numbers filled in "officially" and I have one where the recipient himself apparently noted time, place, and type on back,

but to actually see a form like this with precise details

is a first in my 40 years at this.

[Chris Boonzaier]

This is the back of the award doc itself. Filled out and forwarded to the regt Commander who then signed and stamped it on the front. (or "had it stamped")

[Kev in Deva]

Les and all,

do you know, where he did fight and where and how Hitler was wounded?

I often wondered, where his woundbadge and the document went... Also, if he only had one or two WB?s or dozens, for every suit one?

Gerd

Hallo Gentlemen

Just a quick comment wasn't Hitlers BlackWound Badge got because of the effects of Gas poisoning he picked up as a runner?? I read somewhere that was the main reason he wouldn't allow the Germans to use Gas in combat WW2 because he understood the effects!!

I have also read that he was recommended for the EK2 only but felt slighted because his CO who was Jewish had purposely reccomended him for a lesser award out of spite, so after WW1 he upgraded himself to a EK1.

Can anybody confirm for sure which he was officialy recommended for

Kevin in Deva

[Ulsterman]

According to John Toland-who did quite a bit of research (p.95 Adolf Hitler , 1976), Hitler got the EK1 on August 4, 1918 shortly after he captured a number of french soldiers in no mans' land.

He received the EK1 for prior achievements-"general merit and personal bravery" and the officer who reccommended him for it (and awarded him the medal) was Jewish, named Oberlt. Hugo Gutmann.

Hitler also received the EK2 in 1914- a rare award at that time, the Bavarian MVK3x (17.9.17), the regimentsdiplom for bravery (9.5.18) and on 18.5.18 the wound badge. On 25.8.1918 he recived the Long service medal-3rd class (he signed on as a war volunteer-not a regular too so the LS medal at that date is interesting and noteworthy-attn. Rick L!).

The regimentsdiplom sometimes had an unofficial silver medal awarded (and sometimes engraved) given as a token of the award-but it was rare and varied by regiment (if given at all).

I think there is a powerful arguement to be made that Hitlers' EK1-its prestigue and universal, "democratic" nature, was perhaps the single defining moment of his personal life. His ego was gratified after that award -it was rare to his rank-no more than 5-10% EK1s were ever given to groundpounders. It helped launch his political career.

DDoerings' medal bar on the bourse looks quite like Adolf's official awards-up to 1935 anyway.

Edited May 23, 2006 by Ulsterman

[Kev in Deva]

According to John Toland-who did quite a bit of research (p.95 Adolf Hitler , 1976) Hitler got the EK1 on August 4, 1918 shortly after he captured a number of french soldiers in No Mans' Land.

He received the medal for prior achievements-"general merit and personal bravery" and the officer who reccommended him for the EK1 (and awarded him the medal) was Jewish, named Oberlt. Hugo Gutmann.

Hitler also received the EK2 in 1914- a rare award at that time, the Bavarian MVKx (17.9.17), the regimentsdiplom for bravery (9.5.18) and on 18.5.18 the wound badge. On 25.8.1918 he recived the Long service medal-3rd class (he signed on as a war volunteer-not a regular too so the LS medal at that date is interesting and noteworthy-attn. Rick L!).

Hallo Ulsterman Thanks for the info, nothing like fixing things in the right place with cold hard facts and blowing away the fog of myth any one else care to comment

Kevin in Deva,

[Gerd Becker]

Thanks for the replies, Gentlemen. I read about the reasons before, but just couldn?t remember.

Gerd

[dond]

DDoerings' medal bar on the bourse looks quite like Adolf's official awards-up to 1935 anyway.

The guy that sold it to me said it was Adolph's bar.

[saschaw]

Wasn?t the b.R.I.R 16 the Regiment, old Adolf served in?

Did some one mention Bavarian R.I.R. 16 ???

I do not know if he was in R.I.R. or I.R., but he's quite a pretty guy, isn't he?

A "Oberst" in "feldgrauer Uniform" from about 1917/18(?).

[saschaw]

And in Detail. His decorations are:

- Bayern, Milit?rverdienstorden III. Klasse mit Schwertern;

- Preu?en, Eisernes Kreuz 1914 II. Klasse;

- Bayern, Rettungsmedaille(?);

- Hamburg, Hanseatenkreuz;

- Preu?en, Roter Adler-Orden IV. Klasse;

- Baden, Orden vom Z?hringer L?wen, Ritterkreuz (wohl) II. Klasse mit Eichenlaub;

- Bayern, Dienstauszeichnungskreuz II. Klasse f?r 24 Dienstjahre;

- Preu?en, Centenarmedaille 1897.

I'm not sure with the 3rd one, might someone help, please?

[Kev in Deva]

And in Detail. His decorations are:

- Bayern, Milit?rverdienstorden III. Klasse mit Schwertern;

- Preu?en, Eisernes Kreuz 1914 II. Klasse;

- Bayern, Rettungsmedaille(?);

- Hamburg, Hanseatenkreuz;

- Preu?en, Roter Adler-Orden IV. Klasse;

- Baden, Orden vom Z?hringer L?wen, Ritterkreuz (wohl) II. Klasse mit Eichenlaub;

- Bayern, Dienstauszeichnungskreuz II. Klasse f?r 24 Dienstjahre;

- Preu?en, Centenarmedaille 1897.

I'm not sure with the 3rd one, might someone help, please?

Hallo Saschaw

Number 3 is either: Bavarian Luitpold Medaille, 1897-1918 in Silver valued at 450 Euro.

or Bavarian Life saving 1889 to 1931 in silver, valued at 650 Euro.

hard to tell without a back view, maybe it can be acertained from the ribbon??

Kev in Deva.

Edited August 26, 2006 by Kev in Deva

[Schießplatzmeister]

Hello Saschaw:

I believe that the third medal is either a St. Georgs-Medaille (Jubil?umsmedaille) or a Lifesaving Medal. It is difficult to determine which as it is difficult to detemine which ribbon is there, but I am leaning more toward the lifesaving medal.

If anyone has a genuine Bavarian Lifesaving Medal, I would be more than happy to purchase it for EUR 650!!!

Gru?,

"SPM"

[JensF.]

2. b.I.R was at Verdun from 25.05.1916 - 26.06.1916. Mostly in the area of Thiaumont.

[Chip]

With only a few regiments possible, one would think this man would be identifiable?

Chip