rare bayonet.

[rumjar]

gentleman,

what would you say was a rare bayonet.

i am sick of seeing rare bayonets on e-bay.

lets show some rare bayonets here.

joe.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Yes - these are fairly rare - value about ?150/200. This one is in nice condition. Mauser 'sawback' - short version - in use mainly in WW1. Intended originally to cut down brush in front of firing positions or, gun emplacements. In the Colonial version, mainly carried by NCO's. The famous story regarding them, is that British troops let it be known they would kill any enemy soldier in possesion of a sawback. The reason being - of course - the dreadful wounds it would leave. Truth , or not, the fact is that many of the examples we see have had the saw part filed off ! Many armies used sawback bayonets.

Joe, you need to do close-ups - on the forte, under the guard will be all of the issue details - incl. on the spine the year of issue.

Edited June 1, 2009 by Mervyn Mitton

[rumjar]

hi mate, here is a close-up.GEBRHELLER MARIENTHAL,SCABBARD MARKED 18.R.12.210. no year date. joe.

Edited June 1, 2009 by rumjar

[Mervyn Mitton]

Joe - look on the edge or, spine. Usually it has the Imperial Crown and the two numerals for date of manufacture ?

[rumjar]

Joe - look on the edge or, spine. Usually it has the Imperial Crown and the two numerals for date of manufacture ?

no date on the spine mate.

joe.

[rumjar]

one of the most sought after bayonets a hooked 07.joe.

[leigh kitchen]

I think there was a bit in "All Quiet On The Western Front" ( bearing in mind it's fiction) about German squaddies "losing" their saw backs in favour of "normal" bayonets because the enemy would do bad things to them if they were captured with a saw back.

THe British conveniently forgot their own use of saw teeth on bayonets come WWI & criticism of the Germans use of such weapons.

The 1907 Pattern with quillon - I had the opportunity to buy one for ?40 about 7 - 8 years ago but did'nt. Mistake.

[Mervyn Mitton]

Leigh - welcome back - again!! (twice in two weeks, are you using 'up' sick leave? ) Pity about the 1907, you don't see many now - many people bring them in , but, in reality they are the Japanese bayonet from the same period which also has a down turned quillion.

Your comment about British sawbacks - yes, we had several patterns - but were any still being used by 1914 ?

[rumjar]

I recall seeing a 07 sawback at Stockport arms fair a few years back. it must still be around out there

somewhere. joe.

[Theodor]

This is one rare. Mannlicher M88, but made in Gabrovo, Bulgaria. Missing the grips, but so rare!

[Theodor]

Another interesting, ca 1915 Bulgarian dress bayonet. Some say for Sergeants, some - for Generals. Probably the second.

[Mervyn Mitton]

As you say - two rare bayonets. The moulding of the lion, on the Bulgarian example looks very interesting - would be good to see a close-up ?

[leigh kitchen]

Another interesting, ca 1915 Bulgarian dress bayonet. Some say for Sergeants, some - for Generals. Probably the second.

That lion head pommel etc remind me of a cut down Serbian sword I've got somewhere, etched blade broken or cut down & sharpened as a dagger, blade hilt shortened, handguard removed,married up with a bayonet scabbard & frog - a ruined sword but presumably used by a partisan, a farmer whoever for a more practical purpose.

[Theodor]

Yes, indeed, looks like that, but just looks, it is not modified. These bayonets were made by Horster Solingen specially for Bulgaria. Here are some clear photos

[Theodor]

lion

[Mervyn Mitton]

From the depth of the eye sockets I wouldn't be surprised that it had stones inset. Should this be so, then the head could easily have been silvered. Have you seen one in a museum ?

[rumjar]

nice one Theodor you have got me mate. never seen that one before.joe.

Edited June 4, 2009 by rumjar

[Theodor]

No, it did not have stones. Know 2-3 in local collections, never had glass/stone eyes. These were in fact more sort of combat bayonets, than parade bayonets. Olive painted scabbard, ordinary dark leather frog, combat type dark leather tassel /missing from mine/, wooden grips instead of bakelite or bone. The blade and guard are chromed, but I think the lion head was just iron.

I have not yet found this bayonet on period photos! There is no doubt it was period, mine came directly from the "luggage" left from an officer from the beginning of the 20th century - WW1 period. He was neither a sergeant, nor a general, but a military administrative officer. So, the mystery about these bayonets remains!

[Theodor]

1-2 more bayonets. Not super rarity, but uncommon.

First, an ordinary Mannlicher M95. However, post-WW1 in Yugoslavia all markings were removed and a Yugo marking applied. These bayonets were used with uncommon weapon - M95M. Mannlicher 95, converted in Yugoslavia for Mauser rounds.

[Theodor]

This looks like a ruined French Gras bayonet, but in fact it is neither Gras, nor French. It is a Steyr made bayonet for the Romanian Peabody-Martini /also made by Steyr/

[Theodor]

Last, two types of bayonets for the US-made Peabody-Martini for the Turkish army. /the production of the Ottoman contract Peabody Martini in the USA was a whole saga, ending with the bankrupt of the manufacturing company, but that's another story /

[leigh kitchen]

Yes, indeed, looks like that, but just looks, it is not modified. These bayonets were made by Horster Solingen specially for Bulgaria. Here are some clear photos

S'Okay, I'm not suggesting that it is anything to do with the Serb sword, just saying that it remnds of my cut down sword - which I've looked for but can't find yet.

What rifle did it fit?

[Theodor]

It's a dress bayonet, can not be put on a weapon. So it's not really a bayonet /as the thread is for bayonets/, but hope to fit here for its rarity :cheers:

[Mervyn Mitton]

I don't quite understand why you say it doesn't go on the rifle ? All the fittings look to be present. The lower curved one is a sword-bayonet - known as a Yataghan. With the British, it was usually reserved for Sgt's. From this period weren't the Turks using a Mauser?

[leigh kitchen]

I think that Thedor's refering to the lion headed bayonet that he posted on page 1 Merv, as a dress bayonet designed "for show" rather than to be fitted.

That second bayonet in the photo above does look like an 1857 yatagan (I've got one somewhere, with black chequered leather grips, no unit marks so presumably a Volunteer one), no doubt Theo will tell us more.