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For Discussions on all aspects of British Civic Orders, Gallantry Awards, Military Campaign Medals, Long Service and Jubilee Medals (not specifically covered in Colonial or Commonwealth Sections) of the United Kingdom of Great Britain
For discussions relating to Post WWII Conflict and War. Including Korea, Vietnam, Malaya, Oman, The Balkans and Northern Ireland. It includes current ongoing Conflicts and War Zones. i.e. Iraq & Afghanastan.
thanks for all the pics. - always appreciated.
i am quite familiar with the MVK issue after 1905. Because the official 1907 handbook did not show or mention an MVO silver "without flames", I was just wondering.,since after a soldier would have studied this recognition guide and someone else would show up wearing that MVO silver without flames - he wouldn't know what it is.
Okay, maybe I am just putting to many thoughts into this.
Taking the actual feasible rarity of an original pre 1906 MVO in silver into account - 99% of those presently offered must be fakes, and price-wise they are even offered at half price of an MVO 4.KL.
Have you ever seen that NCO cross on a time-period photo? I have only seen it once on a pencil drawn portrait (not very clear so you cant make out the real features).
Gruess mir die Berge
there were 3 different forms of MVK.
1st form from 1866 - 1905, one class, silver, blue enamelled.
2nd form from 1905 to late 1913, two-class,
1st class silver with enameled front medallion of gold,
2nd class only in silver.
3. Form late 1913 - 1918 six classes,
1st class with crown and swords (originals very rare),
enameled VS medallion in gold,
1st class with swords, as above but without a crown.
2nd class with crown and swords, silvered with enameled VS
2nd class with swords as above without crown,
3rd class with crown and swords, coppered without enameled
3rd class as above without crown.
The swords were awarded for use in war.
For the 1st form, the swords were subsequently donated and could
be bought later.
2nd form swords were only awarded in South West Africa (very rare)
3rd form swords for WW1.
Viele Grüße aus Bayern
But be careful, the 1st and 2nd forms are often faked, the 1st
grades of the 3rd form too.
scho, ober dann versteihn de ondern niet wos mir schmaddern dan.
Regarding MVO's. I have an original Soldiers handbook regrading the royal Bavarian army printed 1907 edition 1905.
There is also a section dedicated for soldiers to learn about recognizing medals.
In this 1905 edition only 1 order (MVO) is shown. described as Ritterkreuz II Klasse des Militaer Verdienst Ordens in Gold (for officers) and Militaer-Verdienst-Kreuz in Silber mit Schwertern (for non officers).
Since the Bavarian order edict of November 1905 states that the previous MVK in Silber is to be replaced by the "new" MVK (1906-1913-1918) this book logically does not show this "new MVK" - basically the one that is nowadays floating around the market, divided into 3 classes.
Since it is an official recognition guide for soldiers regarding the period 1905 and before, it would indicate that the (1905 MVK) looked exactly the same as an MVO only being in silver. Would that be correct?
Because if so, then what are these after 1905 (MVK's with blue enamel but no flames) shown in the internet supposed to really be? just fakes? or did the official recognition page just miss out on these medals?