Dave the Snake Guy

Hello Mike,

Excellent, a belated thanks for for your ID. It makes a good bit of sense.

And thanks Mervyn, for your concurrence.

Chris, our pin is tiny by comparison, but it also has the text on the belt around the outside.

I'll be posting some images of Royal Artillery and possibly Royal Horse Artillery waist belt clasps in the GB Militaria thread, if any of you have any expertise with these clasps.

Thanks again,

Dave

Wow, what a great lot! Your Royal North West Mounted Police Tunic is spectacular! Was the belt that was worn with this tunic included in the lot?

Dave

Greetings,

I dug this badge at an old house site (few hundred years old) in Orange, Virginia, USA last week. The pin, which is missing, was mounted horizontally across the back. The phrase is the motto of the Order of the Garter and translates as: "Shamed be he who thinks evil of it". Does anyone recognize what badge this is? The elements of the shield, of the Royal Coat of Arms of the United Kingdom, are slightly different than the examples I have observed to date. The badge is 44 mm wide. Thanks for your help.

Dave

Hi All,

Any idea of the Nationality of this European Soldier. I believe this postcard is of the 1920s. Thanks for your help,

Dave

Jef,

As you can see I'm senile. I was on the first page of this thread and proceeded to admire your collection, oblivious to the point I had replied to you a year and a half ago! I didn't remember where I had first commented in the Club before. Have you collected any more snakes since the initial five? As you can see I still like your snakes and I still am looking for one like your number 3. Do you run across Belgian snake belts like number 5 very often? Have you determined if this was a WW1 era belt?

Dave

Jef,

What a nice collection of snakes. Have you found any books on them yet? I'd like to learn more about Belgian use of snakes in their Military and by their fire brigades. Do you have any imagery?

I can tell you that your Snake 1 is the style most commonly used on the British 1914 Leather Pattern belt and it was also used by some Canadian troops in WW1. This same snake pattern was also used by some Australian, British, Canadian, and New Zealand troops during the Boer war.

You said that Snake 2 and 4 are plain backed. I have a snake similar to these, but I would say the back is flat, rather than plain. Some French snakes have plain backs, in other words the shape is there, just no features. I'll try and attach an image of my snake like your #2 & 4. All I know is that it was reported as WW1 era.

I have seen examples of 3 as British snakes, but the age of use is not known to me. Was your example dug from a battlefield?

Matt,

As others have posted, you have two thirds of a snake buckle. Another keeper would hook into the open end of the snake link. This particular style of snake dates from the late 1800s to the early 1900s. They are a British thing that lingered where ever Brits were - especially their colonies. Your example could be military or police (Constabulary). The French have used them as well, but with different keeper styles - such as the rectangular keeper style in the repo example of a Napoleonic era snake buckle that Bear has posted. Most of the French snakes were used with medallion style keepers that depict the branch of service of the soldier. Brits have also used snake buckles in civilian life, but those buckles utilize thiner wire keepers.

Dear Gents,

In the past I tried to find information about the British "1914 Leather Equipment", especially about the snake clasp. So far nobody was able to help. I'm about 5 month's member of GMIC now and I noticed, in fact I'm perplexed by the knowledge of the members. I must admit I don't know a similar forum like GMIC. The way it gives information, the way the members are sharing their photographs and knowledge. Really great. Thank everyone of you.

Back to the snake clasp now. Have 5 snake clasps, and 4 are totally different. The snake buckle belt (1914 Leather Equipment) was used by the British Army. Later the Belgian army also used this type of belt for a period (more narrow; about 4 cm = 1,5 inch, the British belt is about 2 inch broad)) Maybe other armies also used this type of belt? I saw photographs of British policemen and photograph's of Belgian members of the fire brigade with a snake belt as well. So I was wondering, what are the origins of this type of waistbelt. I was told it was used since the 19th century by the British Forces and the origins are from India (?). But that's all I know. I will enclose some pics. The shape is the same, a horizontal S, but 4 of the snakes has a different engraving. Perhaps because of the different manufacturers? Is there anyone who can trow a light on this, or recommend me a good book on this topic.

With kind regards,

Jef

PS. snake 1 was found in the Ypres area. British type

([attachmentid=40784)

Sorry about that Jef,

I'm off to a great start misspelling you name.

Dave

Dear Gents,

In the past I tried to find information about the British "1914 Leather Equipment", especially about the snake clasp. So far nobody was able to help. I'm about 5 month's member of GMIC now and I noticed, in fact I'm perplexed by the knowledge of the members. I must admit I don't know a similar forum like GMIC. The way it gives information, the way the members are sharing their photographs and knowledge. Really great. Thank everyone of you.

Back to the snake clasp now. Have 5 snake clasps, and 4 are totally different. The snake buckle belt (1914 Leather Equipment) was used by the British Army. Later the Belgian army also used this type of belt for a period (more narrow; about 4 cm = 1,5 inch, the British belt is about 2 inch broad)) Maybe other armies also used this type of belt? I saw photographs of British policemen and photograph's of Belgian members of the fire brigade with a snake belt as well. So I was wondering, what are the origins of this type of waistbelt. I was told it was used since the 19th century by the British Forces and the origins are from India (?). But that's all I know. I will enclose some pics. The shape is the same, a horizontal S, but 4 of the snakes has a different engraving. Perhaps because of the different manufacturers? Is there anyone who can trow a light on this, or recommend me a good book on this topic.

With kind regards,

Jef

PS. snake 1 was found in the Ypres area. British type

([attachmentid=40784)

Hello Jeff,

Just found your post and this forum. Your first snake is the style that is most popular on Canadian snake buckled belts of the Oliver pattern, as another member wrote, used by Canadian troops during the Boer War and later belts worn by Canadian units in WW1. This style was also used during the American Civil War, but it was a less common pattern. Most of the this pattern buckle offered as American Civil War are really the post Civil War pieces of Canadian origin. I refer to this variety as the tri-foliate variety - notice the three fingers or digits that extend from the center band. The keepers on this style snake sometimes have extended rather than overlapping connector loops. Let me explain that there are two parts to each keeper - the loop through which the belt loops and the horizontally mounted ring through which the snake links. This ring normally overlaps the vertical belt loop on most keepers, but many of the Canadian buckles feature an extended ring that is attached to the side of the belt loop rather than directly overlapping it. I hope this makes sense. Then again, your examples also include bent ring keepers with and without sliders to cover the unbraised ends - as for as brass wire keepers, but iron and steel keepers are also used and many are gilded or silver washed or plated with nickel, tin and later chromed. Luckily, the keepers are not as complex a subtopic as the snake patterns!

Snake buckles were used by and in most of the former British Colonies - as in America, Australia, Canada, Hong Kong, and New Zealand. Their use extends in an almost unbroken series back to Tudor period - on sword belts, as seen in period paintings. A few styles extend over generations of users, but differences are recognizable to distinguish individual makers, but identifying makers would be a near impossible task through time. I am not aware of much extensive literature on snake buckles, but I have amassed 215 examples and a few score of images of soldiers and others sporting snake buckles - for a book. Probably a series of books, starting with an introductory text.

Your last snake looks more like the type of pattern used by freemasons to fasten their aprons - an extremely specialized branch of snake buckle use that was largely secretive until recently. The Masonic snakes are usually smaller and mounted on smaller and thinner wire keepers than those employed by the military.

British police have also utilized snakes as well as Hong Kong police, Royal Canadian and their predecessors the Northwest Mounted police of Canada. Australian and New Zealand police also have used snake buckles in the past. The RUC (Royal Ulster Constabulary) and the earlier RIC force used snake buckles up into the 1970s.

There is another whole major branch of snake buckles that use what I term plate keepers rather than wire keepers. The most familiar example is the lions head keepers used by Cavalry units. The French have extended the use of many different plate types including medusa heads and various symbols, such as horns, stars, quarter moons, etc. The French use extends from the Napoleonic period to at least pre-WWII.