Gordon Williamson

Not necessarily Rick. Have a look at the furniture on this original Juncker Spange (L/12 marked). Photo courtesy Mark Miller collection.

It's all down to supply and demand. Until recently no reference books even mentioned the "round 3". They were always there of course, but there was no differentiation between them and any other EK, so the prices were just the same as any other EK.

The unfortunate downside of research into any award that ends up identifying those variants that are less often encountered is that it makes them, to some collectors, more desirable and thus increases demand and therefore prices. Don't blame dealers, they just reflect the market. If the collector thinks they are too expensive - don't buy them, - and the prices will come down. It won't work of course because for every enthusiast who thinks - "sod that, no way I am paying ?xx for one of those, there will be 10 who think yes, yes, yes ?xxx, I don't care I've got to have one"

The answer is, of course, ignore the overpriced 3rd Reich EKs, and go for the high quality very reasonably priced and more historically significant Imperial pieces.

My vote would still go with Juncker for these. I've seen them with spurious Schwerin marks ( coincidentally, from the same source as original Juncker Aux Cruiser Badges with spurious Schwerin marks).

The first pattern Juncker Bar to the Iron Cross First Class can be found with identical pin/hinge fittings as found on some of this type U-Boat badge.

Jan Arne's badge is unusual, but I don't believe Steinhauer is the maker. The Steinhauer catalogue shows a badge very similar to Schwerin/ Deumer's style, nothing like this.

Even if we don't know with any certainty who made them, they are still one of the nicest of all U-Boat badges, the eagle is awesome.

Look at the name - Koch, Frankfurt am Main !!!! There is a known 1914 EK2 maker mark "K", so far unidentified. Looks like Koch may be a candidate for this. Thankfully, I have one of these to put in this box. Now if I can just find an original piece ancient tissue to wrap it in, and a nice unused original piece of 1914 ribbon it'd make a nice little set !

Looked to me like it was pre-printed rather than added later. Now here's the really interesting bit. Picked this up from Detlev a couple of weeks back (Just beat Tony to it - Sorry Tony! )

Very nice piece. Bill, do you have an example of the S&L EK2 with the stamped "4" rather than incuse relief ? They have a slightly different core too. I've had a couple over the years but lost the images I had when my PC crashed.

Here's something else to ponder. Some seem to have the little "dots" around the frame with a hollow centre, others seem solid, and it seems to be somethig you see on both "flared" and non flared pieces.

Ed,

The original wartime pieces reputedly had the disc with the Souval name soldered to the back (like this one). Early postwar copies had the disc, but stuck on with Epoxy glue. Once the supply of old discs ran out, Souval sold the copies without the disc. I believe this to be a good wartime one.

Thanks, Gordon,

Do you see this as a Souval restrike or an original?

Ed

Sardar-i-Jang without Swords

I know what you mean, Gordon. Sometimes it is a little bit chaotic, but I wouldn't go into a mission with any other guys. It is a lot of fun and the craziest thing is, as I saw it many times in Kosovo, they do their job much better than many other nations.

I agree. It was probably just that we had some sort of mental image of the Feldj?ger being ultra-smart, very disciplined etc. In reality although their attitude and dress was extremely casual, they were very efficient, got the job done without issue, and were great fun to work with. (We liked the idea of being issued with a Walther P.38 (is it the P1 they call it now ?) instead of having to lug a Sterling SMG around, but definitely preferred our Land Rovers to their VW Kubels !)

One thing I remember from a couple of attachments our unit did with the Feldj?ger in Munster was the way that the guys doing their national service used to mouth off quite openly to the regular SNCOs. If a private had mouthed of to one of our NCOs the NCO would have punched his lights out. They were slovenly buggers too, I remember some guys with brown laces in one of his black boots. They just didn't care. Our RSM would have had an apoplexy if we'd turned up with brown laces in our black boots.

They were great guys to work with though, made the whole thing fun, great guys to get bladdered with too.

With the combination of a dark centre stripe and a bar, seems to be the only two possibilities are the 1904-05 War Medal and the 1931-34 Incident War Medal (non of the other enthronement, merit or Red Cross medals fit the bill).

I'd still go with the 1931-34 Medal being the most likely.

Here's another of a similar "FO" style, but not identical to the above. This one most definitely Tombak but I do recall some time back Thomas Huss had one of these "FO" types which was in some sort of white metal. possibly neusilber, gilded.

The sawfish was actually used as the insignia of several other boats as well U-96 and was the Flotilla badge for 9 U-Flotille. Some of these were factory made, inlaid with enamel and with proper pin fittings. IN fact a box of these enamel versions was discovered a few years back in the original French manufacturers store and was donated to the U-Boot Archiv which sold them to raise funds. Price at the time was around ?10 !!!

This one though, is a bit wierd in that it has the crude obverse as you'd expect from one of the original hand cut pieces made from scrap metal yet in precious metal with a proper pin. Looks much more like a modern commemorative piece. These are still being made for vets as well as for the collector market. It also has a design flaw as there is no "saw" edge to the sawfish snout.

Looking at it this way up. A "W" for Wagner ?

Richard,

Its certainly not the regular Schwerin hook for a Tombak badge. Both round wire and flat wire retaining clips are soldered directly to the back of the badge, so if this is a genuine badge it must indeed have been repaired.

Look at the sub conning tower, the deck gun etc, then visualise the fine piece just posted by Colin O. if it were photographed at the same oblique angle. Looks very much like it's one of the Tombak FO style badges. Same pin fitting too.

Hi Colin,

Very, very nice example. I have seen a few of this type in Tombak and they do indeed mirror the obverse die characteristics of the FO badge perfectly. All the examples I have seen have had the identical pin/hinge style as yours. Absolutely no doubt in my mind you have a good original piece there.

Along with this one. No lining whatsoever, so presumably just a jewellers box and a glorified equivalent to the humble paper envelope.

Just arrived from Hamburg.

The Lion piece has its original case, and is named on the reverse.

The rarer early Deschler DKs with six rivets and small pin are pretty rare, attributed ones even rarer. Two attributed pieces together rarer still.

On left is the DK to Oberleutnant Karl-Hermann Lion of 9./ Stuka-Geschwader 1 awarded 1 December 1941, an extremely early award, one of the first. At right is the award to Kapit?nleutnant Gerd Schreiber, commander of U-95, awarded 22 May 1942, one of the fiurst twenty or so awarded in the U-Bootwaffe.

The reverse set up isn't that uncommon actually. Unfortunately though, the fact that the shot is taken at quite an angle rather than straight on, its hard to identify it properly. Definitely not a Zimmermann though.

In fact most of the U-Boat Badges I've seen identified on Forums as Zimmermann badges ( other than those that are properly L/52 marked) are NOT in fact unmarked Zimmermann but unmarked B H Mayer (L/18). There is a subtle difference between the two makers almost identical badges that a lot of people obviously haven't spotted yet.

With the central stripe of the ribbon being darker than the colours that flank it, I'd say you are right in suggesting the 1931-34 Incident War Medal.

Fabulous !!!! I love it. Wonderful little grouping.