Gordon Williamson

And what the "inside" should look like on a cap with removable vs fixed top. Should always be a white "cheesecloth" type covering to the crown.

Fraid not. Its listed as their badge, but not the reason why. Probably just liked the design, there may not be anything more to it than that.

Here the NCO Visor.

The eagles head is smaller and the neck is longer on the one posted by Mike

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Nope, they are the same. Just the photo makes them look different. Actually, its quite difficult to see on this image, but all four arms of the swastika are cut out. Look at the Schickle and Mayer examples and the top arm of the swastika is solid. What looks like a solid arm on Michel's photo is the pin showing through from the back of the badge.

When it comes to out and out fakes there are plenty of these too. Most of the common fakes have an obvious error. Here is a genuine Panzerschiff Deustchland band. Then look at the way the word Panzerschiff is done on the fake. The letter "s" on the fake is shown as a Gothic S , not the correct "stroke" type s.

It has been suggested that both types of S were used on originals. That is true, but there were strict gramatical rules are to where in the word it could appear. NO original bands used the gothic style "s" in the word schiff where the word schiff was the suffix. Same with the word "schule" in e.g. Unterseebootsschule. The s at the end of Unterseeboots is correctly Gothic, but the S that begins the word "Schule" must be the stroke type, so you have both types in the same word, but in the correct places grammatically.

What you have to watch for primarily are very early Bundesmarine ribbons being passed off as Kriegsmarine. In the first months of the BUndesmarine, they used the same Gothic script font for the lettering. In fact some of the early Bundesmarine ribbons, such as those I've shown here, are even rarer than the Kriegsmarine ones, though not quite as valuable.

Nick,

Its Bronze. It was used as a "tradition" badge by U-274.

Having got all the schools and flotillas I am working my way through the tenders and support ships.

The flotilla ribbons

The full set-

It was originally intended to number them, hence 1 Unterseebootflotille, but this was soon changed to names, and 1 Flotille became Weddigen Flotilla, 1 Unterseebootflotille 1 was the only numbered ribbon.

Most of the stuff worn by U-Boat crews was regular naval issue. One of the few things ( along with the U-Boat badges and their documents) which were only worn by U-Boat men were the specific cap ribbons.

Here are the training school ribbons. The Unterseebootsabwehrschule designation was a "disguise" to suggest they were being trained in defences against submarines, but this was in fact the first "secret" U-Boat training school.

All U-Boat ribbons range from hard to find up to super rare, none are common

Junior Officer grade visor cap. I decided to restrict myself to caps up to the grade of Kapit?nleutnant, as there were relatively few U-Boat commanders over this rank, "Kaleu" being the predominant rank for the U-Boat commander.

Matrosenm?tze-. This one has the cap ribbon "U=Bootsbegleitschiff Saar"

As part of my interest in U-Boat stuff, I decided to try and get examples of all the normal cloth headgear worn by a typical U-Boat crew, based on photographic evidence. This in fact covers a wide range including the tropical helmet ( which I haven't got yet) bizarre though it seems to think of people clambering through narrow U-Boat hatches with big sun helmets !

We have Michel as a member, and he has what I guess is one of the finest

U-Boat collections in existence, so if we are lucky we may see some of his too.

Here are a few of mine.

Officers Bordm?tze

Thanks for posting this one Michel. (I don't have a Zimmermann yet !)

Michel will know the answer to this, but I wonder if anyone can spot the difference ( very slight) between the Zimmermann U-Boat Badge and the two similar ones from Mayer and Schickle shown earlier in this thread.

What makes this last one particularly interesting is that is an "Airmail" letter with the Luftfeldpost stamp. One of the last letters to get out of Stalingrad as the Germans lost their last airfield just a few days after this letter was written.

This group had clearly been kept together by the family after the war. Sad that at some point they must have decided to dispose of it all, especially these letter from the two brothers killed in Stalingrad !

But the records were wrong. Here is Willy's last letter home. Note the date, eleven days after he is posted as missing believed killed. Of course its not so strange with Stalingrad on the point of collapse and in utter chaos.

Strange that in what must have seemed like hell on earth, his biggest worry is not having any Cigarettes.

Soon the Edel family will be receiving more bad news. Once again, note the place of death in the GWGC data sheet. Also note the date he is listed as missing believed killed.

Wonder where Willy is serving ? Oh dear ----- Stalingrad !

But Rudi still has another brother, Willi, still alive. Also serving in the Army.

Here is a Christmas Greeting from him on an Army feldpost card

Its unlikely that his commander survived him by much. The German War Graves Commission data shows where Erich was killed ........Stalingrad !

It was to be the last letter Erich would write. The attack next day goes ahead, but Erich is killed in action.

The Edel family receive this condolence letter from his commander.

His next letter however, shows him "Im Osten". He mentions receiving a photo and that he will carry it with him as a talisman. He mentions that tomorrow morning they will attack the enemy again.

The talisman didn't bring him luck.

Unusual to find documents relating to the soldiers wife and her war service as well as his. But there's more. Rudi has a brother, Erich, and Erich is serving in the Army.

Lucky guy, his first letter shows he is serving in the West.

Note that its addressed to her at the Heeres Munitionsamt

More relating to her work at the Heeres Munitionsamt

In Germany during these times, everyonme had to notify the Police of any change in residence. This document refers to her staying at a womens accomodation camp (for war workers at the factory).

Like many women, Frau Edel ends up in war-work. In her case she will work for the Heeres Munitions Amt in Zeven