Gordon Williamson

Anyone who can read the Alphabet and can tell me what the letters in the centre are ?

Hi Erich,

The gilt effect certainly tones down and darkens but I can't say I've ever seen it go a grey-green colour. Do you have any images of one like that ?

Very nice indeed. These early S-Boot and Destroyer War Badge docs with the gold oakleaf borders are most attractive.

Very, very nice indeed. First campaign shield doc I've seen to a Feldgendarm.

Gordon - the only one I can help with at present, is a Cape Police cap badge. I showed it lower down the page under Cape Mounted Police Photographs. I will see if I can locate a Natal Police one for you.

Thanks Mervyn. At least I have an idea what I am looking for now. The references I have (K&K etc) all relate to British badges. I have very little on Commonwealth other than what I have gleaned from various websites and I have been warned that not all the info is accurate.

Had a quick look around the internet but so far not found any of these for sale, but most things turn up in time !

The other thing I am not sure on is badge changes over period for these units as I'd need to locate examples of the type used in 1913 when they were absorbed into the SAMR.

Never really been into figures primarily bacause my painting skills are not too good, but because of its subject matter I couldn't resist this one. Hopefully the skill of the guy who made the master for this superb Korean made resin figure hasn't been totally ruined by my clumsy painting !

Hi Brett,

Much obliged ! At least I know what I am looking for now. I wasn't going to go back any further than the SAMR for the history of the SACMP but now I know I have the CMP title I won't be able to resist getting the badges of their earlier forebears (or trying to !)

I'm hoping to try and find examples of the badges for the four units which were amalgamated in 1913 to form South Africa's first Military Constabulary, the SAMR.

So, I need to find

Cape Mounted Police

Cape Mounted Rifles

Natal Police

Transval Police

Problem for me is that I haven't a clue what they look like. Does anyone have any photos of these ?

I found out today that a "CMP" shoulder title I had in a box with some spare British Corps of Military Police CMP titles was in fact for the Cape Mounted Police so that was a bit of a bonus and at least gets me started, !

Always thought that GWL was one of the better executed designs. Pity they only made later examples in Zinc. A Tombak badge with their design would have been really superb.

All of which is very interesting but sadly doesn't take us much further forward,though the match of the hardware on the unmarked Destroyer to Michel's U-Boat is interesting, we need to establish if Michel's Badge is a 100% match to both the assumed S&L Zinkers and also the Collectors Guild piece. If it is not a perfect match to the CG piece, then we may have found two makers of this Tombak type. If it is a match then we still have no way of positively identifying the CG badge which seems to have perfectly matching die characteristics for W&L but hardware used by both W&L and S&L.

The piece being sold by Pete Whamond on Collectors Guild is a very nice example and reasonably priced considering its rarity, compared with prices often asked for other makers which are much more common.

The distinctive catch was used by both W&L and S&L. Shown here is the catch on a Tombak W&L Minesweeper.

The question now is whether Michel's example came from the same tooling as the Collectors Guild piece.

We now know that this exact style of badge was made for sure by Wächtler & Lange and Klein & Quenzer and also probably by Steinhauer & Lück.

I have never seen a K&Q badge in Tombak but for sure W&L made at least a Minesweeper in Tombak. Collectors Guild also has a virtually identical Tombak piece (obverse) but slightly different reverse fittings to Michel's badge. The Collectors Guild example has a type of pin and clip which was for sure used by both W&L and S&L.

There are some minor issues around the shape of the rudder which seems to be perfectly square on some examples and tapering slightly from wider at the top to narrower at the bottom on some others. This may or may not eventually give some clues as to manufacturer. Both the Collectors Guild Tombak example and the known "100" marked W&L Zinc example have square rudders.

At least one of the examples which some have attributed to S&L has the tapered rudder.

Here is a comparison between a "100" marked Zink "W&L" and the Collectors Guild unmarked Tombak example.

One of the first Military Policemen, a member of the Gendarmerie acting as an Army MP, probably taken during the early stages of the Polish campaign.

Bahnhofswache in the railway station in Hannover, 23 August 1940.

Thanks very much Gordon for this historical perspective. The breadth of your research is formidable! So in this photo it seems to be a KM issue blue uniform; is that insignia of the national symbol on the upper arm specific to the MKP or the WSP? And does it replace the standard left breast insignia or is it in addition to...?

Cheers.

---Norm

The sleeve eagle is identical to that worn by the WSP, but the standard KM breast eagle was also worn at the same time, just as Army Feldgendarmen wore both the Gendarmerie sleeve eagle and Heer breast eagle at the same time.

Hi Gordon,

Very interesting. Thanks for posting.

I presume these go with the shoulder straps you posted here?

Would these police be from standard Navy personnel or would they be recruited into Navy positions from a civilian police force?

Best regards,

---Norm

Yes. You can see both the straps and the cuffband on this shot.

The original tranche of personnel to set up the Marine Küstenpolizei came from the civil Wasserschutzpolizei, and in the same way those transferred from the Motorisierte Gendarmerie to help form the Feldgendarmerie initially wore their police uniforms for a short period, so the ex Wasserschutzpolizei personnel wore their WSP uniforms before changing to KM issue dress.

The interesting thing about these, and something you'd never realise when just looking at a photo of the band itself, is its very narrow width. You need to see it against a regular width cuffband to realise its small size.

Thankfully, although a few copies of these have emerged, they are not particularly accurate so they are a reasonably safe buy, for now at least, IF you can find one.

After several years of searching, finally picked up one of these to replace the one I foolishly sold long time ago, thanks to Jan Arne tipping me off about one for sale over in Norway.

Feldgendarm from the Hermann Göring Division.

One of my favourites. Feldgendarm from "Feldherrnhalle" with both cuffbands

One of the rarest photos I have found. Note that this Luftwaffe Feldgendarm is wearing the Police sleeve eagle on the Luftwaffe Fliegerbluse. Also not clear on this scan but can be seen on the original print, is that the Gorget has the Luftwaffe eagle.

Feldgendarmerie from Sonderverband 287

Interesting. Over on the British & Commonwealth Badge Forum, one guy has a badge with only the central part of the scroll removed ( the "swallow-tail" ends still intact)and another guy mentioned seeing one with the scroll all intact but with the lettering ground off.

Perhaps all the variatrions are down to any orders relating to the aletrations being somewhat ambiguous and open to interpretation.

I'll send you a list of the names from the Feldgendarmerie Wehrpässe and Soldbücher, Documents etc I have for your database, also the names from some Feldgendarmerie KIA obituary cards

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