Gordon Williamson

Can anyone suggest what this is ?

It is collar-dog size. White metal with two of the usual lugs on the reverse.

Paul,

The Zinc badges in the Schickle design can't be from the Schickle firm as the firm went out of business in 1941, long before the use of Zinc.

So, either Mayer used the Schickle design in Zinc initially then changed to this other design, or Mayer used the "new" design for Zinc and Zimmerman used the "old" Schickle design.

Actually, the "Schickle" design does also exist in Zinc so there doesn't appear to have been any technical difficulties in using the original dies. If Schickle went out of business long before Zinc was used, and Mayer chanmged to this other design for their Zinc badges, then the "Schickle" design in Zinc may well have been from Zimmermann, the other firm that used this style.

Of course the original tooling may have become damnaged at some point forcing then to use a new die.

Nice example ! Strange that they would change to an entirely different design when moving from Tombak to Zinc.

Hi Simon,

I do indeed trust the information provided by the Norwegian researchers !

So, I am now working on the basis that this guy was still serving on one of the few remaining Condors right through to the end.

If any of your reseracher contacts could provide any additional info on this guy I'd be most grateful.

My ultimate goal would be that if the aircraft code for any aircraft he served on could be found, then I could try to find a photo of his actual aircraft.

All I know at this point is that KG40 aircraft had F8 as the first part of the code.

Never really tried researching Luftwaffe units to any great degree so wouldn't know where to start, though I did once own an RK grouping to a Luftwaffe night fighter pilot on Me110s and was able to find the tail gunner of a Halifax bomber he shot down during the action that won him his RK !.

There were two basic types of soldiers in the Feldgendarmerie.

1. Policemen, (mostly Officers and SNCOs) predominantly from the Motorised Gendarmerie, temporarily transferred into the army.

2. Wehrmacht soldiers (mostly junior ranks)posted to serve in Feldgendarmerie units. Of course some of these eventually rose up the ranks to more senior grades.

As far as I can tell, those members of the Feldgendarmerie who were transferred into the military were considered as being "on attachment" and many of them at some point returned back to the Police.

If for instance they had 10 years Police service and were then attached to the Army for service with the Feldgendarmerie, after two years with the Feldgendarmerie they'd still get the 12 Year Police LS Cross, the army service being accepted aa counting towards their Police service.

Most of those policemen who served in the Feldgendarmerie considered themselves professional police officers first and foremost.

I've had correspondence with a few former Feldgendarmerie officers and every one of them was formerly a Policeman and all of them had the appropriate Police Long Service Award.

Been thinking of buying one for a while and finally decided to go for it. Helmut Weitze hsa a few of these at the moment. Quite range of different styles exist for these. ( i.e. Bavaria has lion heads instead of eagles and Armee-Korps Gorgets have a Roman numeral below a slightly smaller set of arabic numerals).

Rather expensive though so this will most probably be the only Imperial one I'll buy - for now.

Reverse. maker mark on central prong is for Juncker of Berlin.

My first Imperial Fg Gorget.

1915 Pattern with dull grey finish. For a Garde-Korps Feldgendarm.

Very impressive set of documents. Congratulations !

Cracking film clip John, thanks for that. Some really interesting shots of the Air Gunner in the ventral gondola !

Hi Simon,

Thanks for the info. Most interesting.

Certainly seems to be a lot of contradictory info out there.

Had a look at Nafziger which at one point also states

A new 1. and 3./KG40 began forming in Fassberg with He 177 bombers from 1.43

Then implies the whole of I/KG40 at Vaernes with the HE177 from July through to October 44

Then contradicts this with 3/KG40 at Vaernes from Nov 43 "probably still with the Fw200".

I suppose the determining thing is when he transferred from 2/KG40 to 3/KG40. The www.luftwaffe.no site shows 1 and 2/KG40 as being equippped with the He177 in the data for 1944 but no info for earlier than that.

I imagine he could have flown He177 while with 2/KG40 in early 43 after it re-eqippped but would certainly have been back on Fw200s by the end, when with 3/KG40

So he was either Fw200 - He177- Fw200, or simply Fw200 all the way.

Do you know of any German sources which list the actual aircraft codes, and crew allocated to them ? I know the unit code is F8.

A google search reveals several results which quote full aircraft codes include the names of some crew so presumably the info is on record somewhere, probably the Bundesarchiv.

Checking through my files I discovered images I had of an Auxiliary Cruiser badge with this same mark.

Unfortunately it was also a "debatable" piece with a horizontal pin and top hook, features not yet encountered on any verified original Auxiliary Cruiser badges.

So, it looks like this U-Boat badge would have to remain in the "not sure" category for now, but its certainly one that, if I owned it, I would be in no hurry to discard.

The Spange I mentioned with the "5" mark was slightly different as the mark was a normal stamp, without a border, and a definite numeral 5.

Hi Simon

Yeah, I was in the same position. Kept looking and thinking "Should I ?" Then I decided that if I didn't bite the bullet and do something, by the time I had decided, someone else would have taken it.

According to

http://www.ww2.dk/air/kampf/kg40.htm

3/KG40 was reformed in Fassberg in January 1943 and re-equipped with the He177. Perhaps the Aufklärungsschwarme you refer to was the remnants of the Condor aircraft of the "old" 3/KG40.

To be honest its the Condor that fascinates me, so I'm not too concerned if references to 3/KG40 using the "Greif" are wrong.

I've seen references to both the Condor and Greif being used on resupply missions at Stalingrad and for sure both 1/KG40 and 3/KG40 formed part of KGz.b.V. 200 under Major Williers, based in Stalino and flying supplies into Pitomnik. If 3/KG40 did re-equip with the Greif in Jan 43, it would explain references to these aircraft being used at Stalingrad.

Here's the stamp on the small typewritten sheet. The top part is "Kdo. d. Schiffe u. Boote d. Lw.". Can't make out the lower part. this unit was involved in mine clearing after the end of the war so he may well have been employed on this type of work after the surrender.

Interesting piece. The badge has all the attributes you'd expect to see on a period made badge by Funcke & Bruninghaus with the bonus of the rarer cut out swastika.

The retaining clip style is known from original F&B badges and the pin style pretty much matches the wide type used by F&B.

The only wierd thing is the "5" maker mark. That being said, I have had a perfectly original EK1 Spange with the "5" mark. I suppose the question is, - Is it a number 5, or is it a letter S. Is it a maker mark or is it an inspection stamp , something found on several other KM badges.

A strange one, and one that many people might shy away from, but I wouldn't be quite ready to write it of off as fake yet. The basic badge looks sound and even seems to have the distinctive flaw on one of the wing feathers that is a "fingerprint" of this F&B style badge.

An unofficial, privately made, piece is always possible, but there were only two official patterns of this Feldmütze style cap for the Navy, the M38 Gefechtsmütze and the M39 Bordmütze (no M40) both of which were visually, almost identical, so a dark blue M34 style is unlikely.

So, apart from being a really nice set, why is it so interesting to a KM collector

Well, its the unit.

KG40 was equipped with the FW200 "Condor" which flew anti-shipping strikes, often in collaboration with the U-Boats.

In addition, this unit flew supply missions into Stalingrad !

His final unit 3/KG40, flew the Heinkel He177 ( the "Flying Coffin") equipped with Henschel guided bombs, and attacked the allied landings in Normandy around D-Day !

Air Gunner Ausweis , so we know what he looked like too.

EK1

EK2

Air Gunner

Bomber Clasp in Gold

Bomber Clasp in Silver

As predominantly a KM enthusiast I don't usually look at Luft stuff, but for reasons that will become obvious, couldn't resist this set which is on its way to me now.

Award Doc for Bomber Clasp in Bronze

I can hardly wait.

Some tiny points for the proof readers: I noticed on the samples posted, that for each maker the city of production was appended after a comma, except it was omitted for Funcke & Brueninhaus by accident I suspect.

Also, for the F&B 1st pattern S-boot there's a discrepancy between the text and the photo caption describing the catch and retaining hook. In the text it says flat wire catch and flat wire retaining hook, whereas in the caption for the closeups it says flat metal catch and round wire hook which matches the photo. I'm being nit-picky I know. I'm really looking forward to ordering a copy!

Best regards,

---Norm

Yup, these are exactly the kind of things we are correcting at the moment. The samples are the "raw" uncorrected proofs.

Page count is just under 400 pages with somewhere over 1000 photos and it will be large format, matching "Torpedo Los".