Gordon Williamson

I found this surfing e-stores.

What I don't like with it are the hilts on the swords, and from what I have read, the "thick" RK's are repro's. Also I don't like where the 900 is, has anyone seen this before?

It certainly doesn't match any known originals but the simple fact is we don't know how many firms manufactured this award so apart from gut feelings about certain aspects of its execution that don't quite match up with other known originals, there is no way to be absolutely sure. Certainly not the kind of piece it would be worth risking a lot of money on though.

It is NOT however true that all "thick" RK are fake. There is a marked difference in the thickness of the common Deschler type and the Steinhauer type which is noticeably thicker. (The Steinhauer is itself however, thinner than the very thick postwar Souval pieces).

Its a bit like the "low swastika" wisdom of the Souval RK of the EK, which caused some people to worry over perfectly original Knight's Crosses because of the swas being a little lower than the beading when what was meant was really that "very low" swastika were a worry. Same with the KVKs. The Souvals copies weren't just thick, they were "very thick".

You're right Chris. With 1939s you have to be observant to note the differences, with Imperials you have to look hard to find two makers exactly the same !

Hi Jim,

Here's a link to the kit.

http://hsfeatures.com/features04/uboattypexxiiicw_1.htm

Jim,

Though it has some faults, the Revell one is pretty good considering the very reasonable price, but I believe that a new version is imminent from them, a Type VIIC/41 with the extended wintergarden and additional Flak armement, should be a winner.

There is also a Type XXIII in this scale available which is also very good.

Looks good. I will be in Scotland meeting the man attached to this in December. I can't wait!

Thanks,

Marc

Looking forward to it too Marc.

Its unusual to locate a photo clear enough to identify a specific type of U-Boat badge so your photo is quite a find.

The initial likeness to Schwerin (cut out swas, narrow chest to eagle etc ) can be quickly discounted as the pronounced "beak" on your photo is unlike the poorly executed eagle's head common to the Schwerin type design. The chest of the Schwerin type is quite scrawny too.

If you look at the beak/head area on your photo and also the basic curvature of the outline shape to the eagles chest, I'd say you have a very very good match for Wegerhoff.

GWL?

My apologies Hinrik, I should have read your post more carefully. As this is a correct type of clock found on U-Boats and with the additional factor of having recieved it from the estate of a U-Boat commander it is a fair assumption that it did indeed originate from a U-Boat and not a surface ship.

U-Boats used exactly the same clocks as surface ships, there was no special version for them. All the standard KM clocks had the normal 12 hour cycle numerals. The finest, and most collectable, by Kieninger and Obergfell do not have the smaller 13-24 numerals adjacent to the larger 1-12 numerals.

The larger Junghans ships clocks have the smaller 13-24 numerals running inside the larger numerals on the early brass cased versions and outside the larger numerals on the later bakelite cased versions.

The smaller sized Junghans 8-day ships clock which is what this is, correctly does not have the 13-24 numerals.

Hinrik, this type clock was indeed used on U-Boats, but not exclusively, so could also have come from a surface ship, but it is a good original piece.

Superb pieces Tom, congratulations. That first one with the impressed EK motif is wonderful.

The reverse shows a globe situated on a cherry blossom surrounded by representations of the flags of the main allies ( not the actual flag designs, but the Japanese characters for the countries) Italy, France, USA, Britain and Japan. The text below refers to the five national flags and adds "and the other Allied Nations and the United Nations" whilst above is "Great War for the protection of Civilization, Taisho 3rd Year to Taisho 9th Year"

The ribbon is in the same colours as used by all the other allies.

The figure on the obverse is apparently "Take-Mikazuchni-no-Kami" son of the God Izanagi, replacing the winged victory motif featured on the medal for the other allies.

Instituted on 17 September 1920 to reward all who had served between 23 August 1914 and 9 January 1920.

Rick,

its not the one Prosper posted a link to above. I'ts this one

http://www.majorplm.com/collections/Coll-G...%20Gold-ST.html

Joe,

I very much doubt that a stickpin, or buttonhole device for anything as important as the RK would omit part of the design ( i.e. the 1939 date). The miniatures were usually highly detailed, replicating the features of the original to include the date. Never seen one like this before.

Here you go-

I don't think the gilding is the picture framing stuff. I've removed that gunk from several tarted-up KM badges and it is very easy to remove. This stuff definitely isn't the same. Its quite common to find late war KM badges where the gilding is only on the front so gilding both sides isn't neccessarily a pre-requisite for originality on 3rd Reich badges.

I very much doubt that Juncker ever made the semi-hollow cast badges and the fact that the characteritics differ greatly to original Juncker pieces precludes any possibility that the firm could have used an original solid die struck version as a " master" for these cast versions. Personally, I'd be very surprised if there was any link between Juncker and the semi hollow badges.

I know what you mean about that lovely bronze finish of the type you can find on the better quality late war KVK2s. I've had a couple of Bronze Anti-Partisans like that in the past. This badge, to me , is one of those where the execution never quite lived up to the design. Notwithstanding the rarity, most of these you encounter, even the 100% genuine pieces, are not exactly things of beauty.

(Not that I necessarily agree on Juncker being the epitome of quality. They did some lovely stuff, but I've always thought their Knight's Crosses were crap )

I've suggested to the owner that he register and take part in the discussion, but if it does indeed turn out to be a wrong un, I think what will disappoint him most is that he got it from what is generally considered by collectors (including, I would say with certainty, yourself) to be a reputable source.

Any particular area of the wreath ? I can go as large as you like.

..................with a photo of the original owner wearing it.

And check the IJN buttons used for the chinstrap !

The cap originally belonged to Leutnant Kurt Schwarzbach (U 178) and the owner was fortunate enough to get it direct from Herr Schwarzbach.

As was the cockade and Oakleaves

It wasn't just the odd few awards such as EKs, DKs, Auxiliary Cruiser badges etc which were made out in Japan for U-Boat personnel. From a German collector who specialises in the so-called "Monsun" boats that served in the far east, this highly unusual cap eagle was also embroidered out in Japan.

Posted on behalf of a friend who'd like as many opinions as possible

Also, this badge comes with a number of different types of pin fitting, some of which are just as nicely done as the Juncker Aux Cruiser.

The quality of execution of the eagle on these badges is unsurpassed by any other maker. (They may have made crap Knight's Crosses, but they were capable of turning out superb quality products when they tried )

Now compare it with Mark M's own example of the U-Boat Badge by this maker. (Marc Gs version of course has the additional feature of a cut out swastika)