Peter_Suciu

I'm by no means a collector/researcher of helmets, but would say don't write-it off as not being genuine, even if cobbled together as an other ranks helmet.

Good points. And that is why I did weigh in about the American practices as well.

The problem with all these helmets is that it is just too hard to say for sure. Too many of the parts were available for decades as surplus. Helmets were passed down. It is a unique piece none the less, and I would leave it as is for now. I see no reason to discard it either.

on further inspection of the photos I think I may be wrong in saying that it has 6 seams, can you determine from the original photos exactly how many seams there are? The HSH had only 4, are you sure the colour is khaki and not grey?

American cork helmets, some manufactured in Britain, had only 4 seams.

I can't tell from the photos either whether this is four of six seams. If this is four seams these are in a different location from the American cork helmets. Those seams were at the front and back and directly at the sides.

However, looking at the liner and the location of the seams, this helmet is similar in shape to a French or Italian sun helmet!

Finally, if it is British I would weigh in that it was common for American troops to transfer their Blue Cloth Helmet parts to their White Summer Helmets, despite regulations against doing such a thing. So I'm just throwing it out there that it is possible the soldier who owned this helmet may have started the process. Possible he transfered the plate and/or spike. The rest could have been added by someone trying to "complete" the helmet.

Good stuff Rick. Thank you. I am saving every bit of information I receive in a file, along with digital copies of the photo, and print outs in the helmet tin.

Check this link out regarding early photo's British units;-

http://www.soldiersofthequeen.com/

Excellent Web site Graham. I could spend hours looking at these photos! Fantastic!

I must agree, I was there in 2002 and spent a couple of hours. It's not the Imperial War Museum or National Army Museum, but an excellent collection indeed. Kevin

And I believe it is staffed by former Guards too. The last time I was there in 2002... and there was an extremely elderly man working at the entrance, he claimed to have been a member of the Coldstream Guards. I respect my elders but thought about saying, "so you were them when they were founded?" I thought better of it.

How do you display such wonderful items?

It is on a book shelf with my British history books that cover the era. Sadly I don't have much room... and I have about 170 helmets!

The sources I have on American helmets describe them as being four panel helmets. This is why I brought it up. The thing is I have a four panel American helmet. It looks like the Scottish one for sale almost:

The price was certainly much better. I just hate to see anyone pay that money if they're really buying an American helmet that is worth 1/10th the price!

I'm looking to see if any collectors have any unique British Foreign Service Helmets. I recently co-authored an article on these, but I came across a dealer who has two helmets that I believe have the characteristics of American, not British helmets.

http://www.britishmilitaria.com/1_headdress.html

Items #10 and #11

Most of the helmets that I've seen, which were undeniably British, were six panels. These two helmets are four panel, which is the American pattern. Any opinions? And has anyone ever seen a tartan pagri? I have looked in dozens of books, and have found no photographic evidence. Anything?

Does anyone collect pre-WWI sun or tropical helmets? I have a British, American and French one. I'm trying to find out more information about the Beligan, Portuguese and Italian ones. My research suggests that many of these were made in England using the English six patterns.

Any information?

Helmet Tin:

Sir Charles:

Close up of the helmet:

This summer I bought this British Foreign Service Helmet. It came with the tin as well, which noted the owners name: Major C. Venables-Llewelyn of the Glamorgan Imperial Yeomanry. With help of my friend Stuart Bates, we were able to track down that this officer was Sir Charles Venables-Llewelyn. He was a territorial, or volunteer. He served in World War I, rising to the rank of Colonel. His eldest son died in the war as well in 1917.

I did some digging and I found out that Sir Charles other son was actually a Brigadier in the First World War. Both Sir Charles and this son held the office of Lord-Lieutenant of Radnorshire, which has since been merged with the office of Lord-Lieutenant of Powys. Well, turns out the current Lord-Lieutenant is Sir John Venables-Llewleyn. I was able to contact Sir John, who was kind enough to send me a few photos.

The helmet:

Your question is a touch vague.

Thanks Peter. I'll let my friend respond. He just joined the forum today.

I'm helping a friend find some information on Welch wigs. Does anyone have any insight on these.

Chris--

Once again, a very nice collection!

...I'd think a WWII helmet is a WWII helmet. Sad to see US helmets up to 500 dollars. I mean you can get a post war US M1 for 20 bucks un issued!

Same with Soviet helmets. An SSh-40 dated prior to 1945 is worth $300+. A 1948 dated SSh-40 sells for about $30-50. They're completely the same, and there is no telling that a 1944 dated helmet even saw action or was issued. The Soviets produced so many shells, and many of those 1948 shells may have even been stamped out in 1944, just not issued until 1948!

I would also add that the biggest thing is the lack of quality book on the subject. Chris Armold and Mark Reynosa really helped spark interest in the M1 helmets. The books chronicled the differences of the helmets, showed that there were different liners and covers to collect too.

The thing about the British helmets is that they're all very much the same. I still think it is a collectible helmet, but compared to the pomp of the previous British helmets (such as the Foreign Service Helmet, Home Service, Cavalry helmets, etc.), the steel MkII is kind of plain.

The British Army still does uniforms very well. But the combat gear is sort of drab!

Interesting stuff. I just finished reading the book "Cap of Honor" about the regiment. Some great history the Glocesters have had over the years.

I hear they're losing the back-badge soon.

The bank's own board suffered under the Nazis as well. Here is some information from the Deutsche Bank Web site:

http://www.deutsche-bank.de/geschichte/en/

Hello, All - Once again, I hope the moderators do not mind, but attached is a photo essay I did on another website about my visit to Arnhem and Oosterbeek in Janaury 2005. This is thel ink:

Great stuff! I was in Arnhem and Oosterbeek in November 2005. Too damn cold!

Thanks Bob. Once you told me the units, I was able to find the source.

I have it in Byron Farwell's "Queen Victoria's Little Wars." It was an engagement at Tamai, against the Dervishes. Welsh and Highland troops were fighting and the Welsh soldiers do call out "Broken Square" to pick a fight.

I have read that it was a favorite taunt of certain Welch regiments directed at the members of the 42nd Foot.

That sounds right. Any reason why? What was the battle with the 42nd?

I tend to agree. The paint doesn't look right. These were either green or blue. I'm not sure if this was army and air force, or a uniform change. But those are the colors I've seen on genuine. I know Blinky has a decent one of these. Here is mine:

These look fairly different. Sorry for the late response. I only just saw your post.

Here is my AK-47 next to my MP-44. Both have dummy receivers. But you can see how different they look when you see them up close. I'd agree that an airsoft gun might be the way to go.

I recall reading that there was a taunt among certain regiments, "Broken Square." Any idea who this was aimed at, or by whom?

Does this have anything to do with the Battle of Abu Klea? I know the square broke, but it was still a British victory. The square was re-established, and the battle was brief.

Am I thinking of something else?

Here is one of my new additions. A Wolseley Pattern Foreign Service Helmet.

These were commonly called the topi. This helmet example features the patch of the Lancashire Fusiliers, which fought at Gallipoli in 1915.

The whole series (movies and books) are troubled with continuity issues. When the books first came out they didn't follow a time line, they jump from one period to another. Then after Sharpe's Waterloo B. Cornwell did one post Waterloo story (Sharpe's Devil) then did the "prequels" in India and his journey to Spain which the stories are starting to fall flat. I Still love the stories movies and books. I still plan on getting a Baker Rifle some day and going back to blackpowder shooting with it.

This is a problem with successful series. How do you continue the adventures when the wars are over? And I know what you mean about wanting the Baker Rifle. After years of watching "Zulu" I wanted, and finally bought a Martini Henry!

So how was this latest Sharpe adventure? I personally had been wondering if Sean Bean would return to the character. I know in the UK he's done a number of those romance films, but his world-wide appeal never took off. Playing a villain in the Bond film and then in a few other films including "National Treasure," not to mention taking the worst possible role in "The Lord of the Rings," and of course his supporting role in "Ronin" probably hurt his appeal as a leading man. He's been a rogue and scoundrel too often to be the hero.

Cornwell should do the grandson of Sharpe, and have him go to India, South Africa, the Sudan, etc. So much that a later generation could do.