Stefan

The burial

Front

Thanks Derek,

nice photo.

I received some photos that I won at ebay. It's a burial of the Hauptsturmf?hrer of the 2nd Reiterschwadron and some more men.

The seller translated all of the text of the backside but not the rank and name. I believe it to be Hauptsturmf?hrer G?rtz. G?rtz is my best guess since he was the commander the 2nd squadron in SS-Kav.-Reg 1. According to "Riding East" (page 151) G?rtz died 18th of March 1942.

Translation:

"Der Schimmel ist das Pferd von dem gefallenen [Haupsturmf?hrer G?rtz] der 2. SS Reiterschwadron in Cholm".

I guess "Schimmel" is a type of horse?

Regards, Stefan

Thanks Derek.

Are you guys in the thread collectors of SS-Kavallerie (items, documents, ...)?

I am a beginner in this niche so it would be fun to see what you have more

Cheers,

Stefan

Stefan,

I saw your postings on the other thread, and the replies. I have to say, whether the bump on the frame is possible or not on an original doesn't change my opinion: I also think yours is not original. I know it may not be a popular opinion (especially among collectors who have pieces just like yours in their collections, and who may have paid a lot for them), but I have mentioned before in a posting on the Wehrmacht Awards Forum that I don't like the look of painted cores on 1813's in general, and especially when they have the spots of rust bubbling through the paint as this one has. I have seen that same pattern of rust on EKs - both 1813 and 1870 - that were being sold by some of the most disreputable dealers known.

The 1813 EK2 should not have a lacquered or stove-enameled iron core, unless it is of a much later manufacture. Blackened iron does not have a coating on it - it is rubbed with an oil compound and fired in an oven to turn the surface black. Even original issue 1870 EKs usually had blackened iron cores, so the use of a coating of enamel or lacquer should be considered a very late development.

Tim

Yepp, I agree...

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=9944

Cheers,

Stefan

Thanks Derek,

nice picture. Do you know anything more about it - what unit it might be?

I just missed out on several good SS-Reiter pictures on german ebay. The seller got an offer and closed the auctions

Cheers,

Stefan

Stefan,

Do you have some photos of it or a link to some photos?

Dan Murphy

Sorry, it seems I removed it.

Here's the link again:

http://www.anbratt.se/helmets/1813ek2/

Cheers,

Stefan

The very same type being used by a trooper of an SS-Reiterstandarte......

Hi Robin!

Is that your photo? Do you have the whole picture to show?

Cheers,

Stefan

Hello!

I thought I should start a new thread regarding the discussion about my 1813 EK2.

On http://www.sammlergemeinschaft-deutscherauszeichnungen.net/ it was said that this was a copy.

The certificate from Nimmergut says it's ok.

But then Uwe at http://www.bretzendorfer.de/ helped me out and came to the conclusion that it was not good and that even Nimmergut should have seen it. Right now I got a reply from Detlev that he too thinks it's a top quality copy. Huesken also believes it is a copy.

Everything settled with the dealer - I get my money back

Cheers,

Stefan

I was surprised to see, the document you show here - for sale last friday at Niemann's 2 o'clock update, small group with Soldbuch, this Zerst?rer doc, doc for EK.2, and the large award doc for the DGiG......there was also such a signed black and white repro photo included.

Monsun: I belive I missed your reply. Yes, that should be enough for the Destryer's badge

Too bad you had to sell/trade it away.

Cheers,

Stefan

I would assume it is ww2 issue as the jacket is stamped "1943" under the 3 crowns in the back of the inside of the jacket. The pants could very well be later issue but I am pretty sure the tunic is ww2 issue (unless these were still distributed as surplus to the army well after the war). If it is post-war, why would it be marked 1943? Any thoughts on this?

THanks again,

Pat

They are from 1943, no doubts of that. But after the change in 1958 they are called m/39-58, post war altered WW2 uniform one can say.

The price of m/39-58 in Sweden are about 5 EUR per jacket or trouser. The cost for a m/39 is 25-45 EUR and not that easy to find.

Cheers,

Stefan

Ok

I'll see what I can find...

/Stefan

Anyone saved some pictures from the 1813 EK auctions - #665, #666, #668?

/Stefan

http://www.mortonandeden.com/pdfcats/21web.pdf

Nice helmet story at #76

/Stefan

Stogieman and Marshall - thanks for the tips on sources... I fell back on my old source Detlev Niemann for the purchase of my first 1813 cross - (he was probably happy to oblige .. Anyway, the cross has two hairline cracks in the core, but I think it has nice early features, stepped center, and solid silver frame... pictured at left.. Dan

Nice cross Dan

Is the ribbon original?

Regards, Stefan

Here we go...

ACB = "Arm?ns Centrala Bekl?dnadsf?rr?d", army's central clothing storage.

Cheers,

Stefan

BTW - I got some nice helmets for your uniform

/S

Hello,

I belive your uniform is a m/39-58. In 1958 they added pockets on the back of the jacket and on the trousers. That's why the colour is different on your trousers.

Also the arm pit was altered and the end of the trousers.

I'll see if I can find what "ACB" stands for.

Sweden had a couple of 100-thousands soldiers along our borders during WW2. The uniform could be pre-WW1 models up to the latest & greatest m/39

Cheers,

Stefan

I have never seen that 1939-44 one before-- I wonder how it was WORN?

Hi!

Here it is in a group that was sold at http://www.auktionsverket.se/ ("Kataloger" --> "Vapen och Militaria" --> item 5499).

Regards, Stefan

Stefan,

I see nothing wrong with this cross, but would say it is more like 1815. The early crosses from 1813 (and maybe early 1814) were normally multi piece frames. I have seen anywhere from 8 piece frames to 20+piece frames. Yours is much more consistent with 1814-1815 pieces, after the makers got their act together and is of very nice quality. 1813s are not often seen in that nice of a condition, but they do exist.

Dan Murphy

Thanks for your reply Dan.

Yes, I also don't belive it's an EK from 1813. It's more a combination of the C3 and C4 crosses in Heyde's book. I belive that the outer rims of the 1813 made EKs didn't have that shape, it should be more like the C4 EK, if I've understood the manufacturing right.

Now when I've studied the bump a bit more, I think it's some sort of repair at the back of the ring. I'll see if I can take some photos next weekend.

Tom: Great to see another cross.

Keep 'em coming

Regards, Stefan

Tony J has asked me to add a picture of his example to this thread, so here it is.

It remains one of the nicest 1813 EK2's I've seen...

M

Hi,

since I had my early 1813 EK2 questioned at another forum I thought I could see what you guys think.

It's regarding the "bump" on the eylet and the upper finger. It's clearly seen on the Tony's cross.

Is that a sign of a bad cross? The pictures in the EK books I have (Heyde, Bowen, Previtera) don't show any examples, from what I can see, except Bowen that has a EK from a german army museum with a large bump.

This is my other 1813 EK2 on the attached pictures. I sent it to Nimmergut and got it described as an early EK from 1813.

I will now send it down to Detlev for a 2nd opinion...

Cheers, Stefan

Hello!

Here's my wide 1813 EK2 to compare with. It's from late 1835-39 production. It's very worn.

Width: 42.2 mm

Height: 42.9 mm

Finger widths: 25.1-25.6 mm

/Stefan

front center

stamps

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