Brian R
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Posts posted by Brian R
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To me it's rasonable to conclude that codes (not maker names) are not early war based on the same scenario as in WWII. Unmarked are considered early in the second war so the same can likely be said, to a certain extent, during the Great War.
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To you question, Brian:
Yes I was posting S-W pieces, because S-W and Godets are only two makers from which I have both sandcast and die stamped cores to compare the frame condition. I used them as such not as an example of some WS connection.Gotcha. I just found that referring to Sy and Wagners as "Wagners" was confusing. I generally see a reference to "Wagners" as the WS variety, and not S-W.
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As I understood it up to now, the signals of private purchase are - silver content hallmark, vaulting of the cross, using other than pinback hardware.
That is my understanding too.
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These are Sy and Wagners you are showing, not Wagner and Sohn, correct? They are both classic Berlin manufacturers but it was Wagner and Sohn who made the 1870s. Or, are they related somehow?
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Agree. Chris. This is a great design and very "classic" in my opinion. I just sold one recently - it was to a guy who was not an EK collector, just someone looking to put one on an SA uniform. It really seemed to play the part - something I would imagine on a 1920s or 30s SA tunic.
Here is the cross next to a WWII era screwback
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I agree with what has been posted, that it makes sense the fancy jewelers would have been first out of the box. After all, it was the five from Berlin that are considered the early manufactures - and they would have been the ones to do it when the war was to be a short one.
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A Godet with a story is twice as nice!! I have three of them... here is one with outer carton to Feldwebelleutnant Gebhard of Reserve Infantry Regiment 212.
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One of the nicest EKs made...
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A WWI related cross that saw some wear as it witnessed the second war. Very interesting.
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Wow, Chris. I have done this too (twice). Both times I took a risk on auctions with crappy pictures (something I have done successfully at times as well).
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Excellent presentation, Kevin. I like it a lot and enjoy learning about actions in northwest Germany in 1945 as it is a part of the war I am unclear on, when compared to so many other battles and campaigns.
Ya can't beat citations like this one!!
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This lot (for EK1) consists of 100 € of metal and thousands € of belief. Quite disproportion, I say.
Perfect!
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Awesome set and research, Chris. The seller did not know "what" he/she had?
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Thanks, Guys. And yes, that would be great, Chris!
I have a few document sets related to the air war over the Reich. I will begin working on those next.
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Very nice bar. I love these clean fracks.
This guy was likely too young for the FP war - he joined the service in the late 1800s. He was eligible for the Centenary medal because he was there in 1897.
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Guys - I'm also trying to put together a few short stories on battles and campaigns in which the Iron Cross was won. It's a slow process but I hope to add to it soon.
See this page on Stalingrad recipients...
http://kleinekillpress.com/stalingrad.html
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It's been a while but I have added a couple more examples to the "Begründung" page.
http://kleinekillpress.com/iron-cross-winners---begruumlndung.html
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In looking at the list of various units the Regiment was subordinate to, and how often the Regiment was spread around, it strike me as pretty extraordinary. Is it, though? Obviously units get borrowed from time to time but was this type of thing more common during WWI?
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Of course you´re right. Although I don´t think there is some unnecessary debate on the forum. There is always something to learn. This thread is another reason to repeat, that mark should be handled only as a supporting evidence. This is what I always say to those happy with their "O" or "C" crosses, which turn out to be textbook Godets. Ring can be just badly stamped - not necessarily replaced by forger. Every theory based on MM only, is castle of sand.
Following one simple scientific rule can eliminate any confusion - every idea can be accepted only when supporting experiment is repeated three times with the same results. Translated to our language - every new variant can be accepted only after finding three identical exemplars of that kind. And, as we see, this is chain of rings with random marks.
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Whoa! That is some list. I never imagined a regiment could be spread so thin, so often. Thank you, Gentlemen.
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But I still think, that this can be trap only for beginners. Cross is frame and core, not mark on the ring.
Agreed that that would generally be the case, especially for experienced EK collectors. But one must think that the right marked ring on a combo of known fame and core could cause some confusion. Imagine if it was a known core (from one maker) and a known frame (from another) topped with a stamped ring from the opposite company one would expect. I would guess in certain situations, where the combo of parts has been witnessed but no conclusion of maker/assembler has been determined, it could make for a debate not necessarily had before.
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Ironically, I was getting 32 ID and 23 ID confused in my earlier post, but 23. ID does show RFAR 32 in 1916 in 251...
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I ask all this because I want to understand these Imperial units - I am spoiled as I generally concentrate on WWII when the Wehrmacht was nationalized and much easier to follow. I also have reference to an Unteroffizier named Lutz in 1. Batterie.
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What´s special with this EK I?
in Germany: All Eras: The Iron Cross
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Definitely uncommon, yup.