drclaw

My initial impression was that yours was a Third Class award. But now, I'm not absolutely sure after seeing the full photograph.

All the First Type Double Dragons (with the possible exception of the Fifth Class) were worn as neck badges although there were some transitional breast stars as well.

The Second Class awards were larger and more circular; while the Third Class awards were more an oval shape.

Here are pictures of two recipients with the First Type Double Dragon.

The one on the left is wearing a (large) Second Class, Third Grade badge.

The one on the right is wearing a Third Class neck badge, also below a St Stanislaus. This might give you some idea of the relative sizes of the Second and Third Class badges.

Good luck and let us know how you go!

Gavin

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_07_2012/post-11630-0-26346900-1341651920.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_07_2012/post-11630-0-79410500-1341651959.jpg

Hello Thomas,

He is wearing a First Type, Third Class Double Dragon, awarded between 1882 to 1901. The picture is a little fuzzy to tell the Grade (the First, Second and Third Classes each had three Grades).

Could you post the full image of the gentleman? I always enjoy seeing photos of recipients wearing the Double Dragon.

I see he is also wearing the Order of Osmania among others. He must have been a very well travelled chap.

Gavin

Somebody worked pretty hard to create this piece of art!!!

A cross eyed, colour-blind albino dwarf, working in a darkened cave, by the light of a guttering candle, using a Crayola set left over from his 6th birthday ...

Wait, Najafs?!

How much is he asking for? If it's Najafs, I'm guessing $20,000 ... $30,000 ... $40,000 ??

I see an arbitrage opportunity with ebay :lol:

HILARIOUS!

It even beats the "original" Chinese Warlord medals with their dead, staring eyes.

Ah, I see from the other thread that "Wang Department" of the National Government is the Wang Jingwei Reorganised Government in Nanjing.

That's VERY interesting! The Wang Jingwei regime took pains to present themselves as the legitimate government of China.

They issued their own Orders and used the Chinese flag (with the addition of a pendant proclaiming the Anti-Communist nature of the regime). So why not also issue Red Cross medals!

After YEARS of night school studying Chinese, it was crushing to discover whilst on holiday in Singapore, that I could only comprehend a Primary 1 Mandarin school book.

But that's why I enjoy this hobby so much! You pick up words in German, Spanish, Portugese, French, etc, reading ODM catalogues.

And my Mandarin has improved from trying to decypher Chinese characters in ancient seal script stamped on 100 year old medal cases.

I do envy other folks though - especially our Continental European friends - who are fluent in two, three, four ... languages. Something I'd aspire to achieve one day.

If JC is happy to keep posting - in whatever language he is most comfortable with - I'll be happy to post a translation using Google and my Primary 1 level Mandarin.

It will be a shame to miss out on JC's knowledge and expertise because of language barriers.

Also note that JC might not have access to Google Translate.

Rock on!

Thanks JC, I'll post a Google translation:

Wang (?) Department of the National Government, the Red Cross Badge

What a fascinating example, Galah! I have not seen a British made Lion although it was really a matter of time given Britain was one of the players of the Great Game.

Thank you Owain too for posting your very beautiful examples.

Nick, you mentioned in one of your posts that you could tell from the reverse that it was obviously British in construction. Would you mind expanding on that?

Thanks for a fantastic thread gents.

Gavin

Very interesting to see what a proper, original medal with a profile looks like.

Unlike those ghastly Chinese knock-offs with their soul-less, staring eyes ...

Thanks for posting Nick!

Thanks for posting this Markus. I've been scouring for an enamel restorer in my neck of the world without much success.

I think there's value to be found in picking up "damaged" items for a song and then having them restored.

Gavin

And here is the 2nd (current?) Type:

* the Collar

* Knight Commander's Star; and

* the Commander's breast badge.

This would have to be one of the most elegant and attractive Orders ever designed. Crown Jeweller J.W. Benson of Old Bond Street made many of the insignia and this is clearly evident in the craftsmanship.

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2012/post-11630-0-17667400-1339194220.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2012/post-11630-0-69140100-1339194278.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_06_2012/post-11630-0-82284300-1339194292.jpg

(Images from the OMSA Medal Database, posted by Megan).

James, you're spot on! The recent Hermann Historica (Collection Souyris-Rolland) December 2011 sale had what they described as:

"Malay Federation - Order of the Crown of the Sultan of Johore. A grand officer's set 1st type with 3 crescents consisting of breast star (diameter 89 mm) and a grand officer's cross (dimensions 85 x 66 mm), made cy CF Rothe in Vienna, both with several stamps." Lot 6006

Hammer price - 850 euros

(Photo: Hermann Historica)

The Boullanger Lions are just beautiful. The enamel paintings of the lions would be my favourite, along with the Wolfers lions.

Do you know if official manufacturers' specifcations were issued for the Lion and Sun?

Thanks JC, I'll add a translation for other folk:

"Really beautiful, but many of them are made after 1980 in Taiwan"

Very nice Nick! I think it's time that China had its own section rather than come under generic "South East and South East Asia". There are enough topics and interest for it.

On the Coloured Dragons, what are your thoughts about these?

Surviving insignia are usually pristine (although there is a battered Blue Dragon that has been making the auction rounds), no licence documents have been observed, and to my knowledge no recipient has been positively identified.

One theory is that most of the insignia observed are jewellers' models and were never actually conferred.

Gavin

Hey Nick,

What a fantastic thread! Your research skills are amazing!

That's the first time I've ever seen an actual Grand Order of the Throne. The colours are a lot richer than the faded / washed out colours depicted in the traditional images. I wonder what other goodies are buried in tombs somewhere ...

It's also the first time I've seen the actual colour of the Warlord dress uniform - albeit in technicolor. All of the movie depictions of the uniform are a darker sky blue, but this is a very light, powdery blue.

Gavin

What a wonderful thread, Nick! Well done and thank you!

Everyone who was anyone received the Order of Merit. Yet these come up very very rarely at auction. In fact, only once in the last four years I believe (UBS Tammann Collection 2008).

I can never spend too much time looking at Warlord photos with their egret plumed kepis, big gold epaulettes and bling. They certainly had style in those days.

Gavin

Yeah, I don't think we'll every find out what "1 ARFE" stands for. ARFE is possibly a Portugese name ...

Nick, the smudge / 84 actually turned out to be "FE" under higher magnification.

From what I gathered:

* the First Type Double Dragons (1882-1901) standard neck badges were mostly manufactured in Europe;

* the First Type Double Dragon breast stars (transitional type) had the star corpus manufactured in Europe but with a Chinese manufactured centre (which was a reduced size First Type Double Dragon badge)

* the Second Type Double Dragons (1902-1911) were mostly manufactured in China. The European / Russian insignia were typically marked (and usually much clearer than my example!), while the Chinese insignia were typically unmarked.

Hmmm, a possible variation of the Order of the Blue Sky and White Sun?

Although the diamond cut rays are more like the Order of the Brilliant Star.

Either way it's a beautiful (original?) piece.

Even their makers' marks are stunning!

The Imperial Russian Orders would be the most beautiful of any country's. I only own one - a French-made Order of St Anne, 3rd Class - and was very tempted to bid for an Eduard St Stanislaus breast star.

I haven't flung it into the fireplace yet to see if the letters light up

No, there's no smudge and the "84" now appears to be "FE".

The breast star is definitely European. I looked through the 100s of Russian mnt marks in the link in the pinned topic but couldn't find a match. Given the letters are Roman and the absence of an "84", I'm thinking it's less likely to be Russian.

Close up pics to follow!