drclaw

What an interesting thread! Thanks gents and especially Nick for posting these examples.

Now a silly question. Having only studied 6 weeks of Arabic, are these written in Arabic or Persian?

I ask because most of the documentation for Ottoman Empire orders is written in phonetic Arabic script but actually reads as Turkish.

Thanks JC and HC, that's pretty interesting about pre-1949 medals still being issued decades later from old stocks.

I knew that when the Nationalists fled to Taiwan they took crates and crates of antique treasures and bullion. But silver medals could also fit into that category

To clarify again, the Swan mark on this particular Order of the Brilliant Star DOES NOT mean it was made in France. It only means it was IMPORTED into France anytime before around 1970.

JC - I can't read the mark on the Golden Grain. Could it be a Japanese Mint mark? It looks like Kanji.

This was recently sold by Galerie Numismatique for 4800 euros.

The French silver import Swan mark was used from 1893 up to around 1970. So it wouldn't be Arthus Bertrand (Paris) since the mark was only used on imported items.

It would also make it pre-1970.

Boss Tweed of Tammany Hall was always my personal favourite!

Ah, I was wondering where this set ended up

A very nice set and the price was not unreasonable too!

What an interesting medal in excellent condition! Can only imagine what other treasures you have.

Last time I rifled through my storage drawers, I found some paper clips, a batch of expired Penadol and an old take-away brochure from the local Italian pasta joint. No Third Class Auspicious Clouds or China Incident Commemorative Medals ...

Thanks for posting these Nick. That 'collector's copy' Rising Sun set is a worry, especially the very high quality of the lacquer case.

That Striped Tiger always makes me chuckle whenever I see it on ebay ... and in Borna Barac's otherwise superb Reference Catalogue of Orders, Decorations and Medals book. Mutant tiger indeed! It's like something you'd see on Tatooine ...

A previous JOMSA article "The Order of the Striped Tiger of the Republic of China" by James Peterson includes invaluable information on the different Classes.

The Classes are distinguished by one to three small gilt stars placed on the upper metal rays, as well as by the size, suspension and method of wear. The 1st, 4th and 7th Class badges and stars have three stars arranged in a triangle.

The 2nd, 5th and 8th Class badges and stars have two stars arranged vertically, or sometimes horizontally on the breast star.

The 3rd, 6th and 9th Class badges have a single star.

1st Class and 2nd Class badges: 72 mm - 76 mm in diameter, suspended from a wreath, worn from a sash over the right shoulder

3rd Class: 70 - 72 mm in diameter, suspended from the wreathand a plain flat loop, worn on a cravat

4th Class: 68 mm, suspended from a wreath, worn on a badge ribbon

5th Class: 58 - 63 mm, suspended from a wreath, worn on a badge ribbon

6th Class; 53 - 56 mm, suspended fom a wreath, worn on a badge ribbon

7th -8th Class: 50 - 52 mm, suspended from a ring

9th Class: not seen but probably similar

Breast stars of the 1st - 2nd Classes are 80 mm - 96 mm in diameter, the size depending to some extent on the degree of convexity, and are in the form of a the badge without the suspension

Due to various sources of manufacture, the insignia vary somewhat in size, minor details of the medallion, and the length of the rays.

A further detail which Peterson does not mention is that the First, Second and Third Classes have the centre silver rays gilded in their entirety. The Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Classes are only gilded on the top, bottom, left and right sets of rays.

Where specimens have tarnished with time, it is very difficult to distinguish this until after the medal has been cleaned / polished. (one reason for polishing new purchases!)

Nice pic! You can definitely see the Royal Victorian Order and Bath breast stars in the portrait pic now.

Hirohito looked quite dashing as a young man - before the glasses, stoop and mournful looking moustache.

Hey Nick, thanks for the pics!

Also appreciate the movie tips. I'll track down "The Sun" and "Taurus" as I'm a fan of historical movies if done well.

Whatever you do, just don't watch Jacky Chan's recent '1911' movie on the Chinese Revolution - a meandering, disjointed, propagandist piece that somehow takes a fascinating period of modern history and manages to squeeze all the colour, interest and personality from it.

See my long review on the OMSA forum in the East Asia section.

No, no, no ... ANYONE can tell it's obviously an inverted Klingon medallion shaped like a Klingon Warbird.

Although why he would pin it next to an Order of the Jedi breast star is beyond me ...

Thanks Paul, that's the sort of information that only comes with years of experience and from handling a large number of examples.

This particular Fourth Class is around 67 mm in width. I have a spare original Striped Tiger ribbon which I'd purchased from Zeljko at Ribbonsshop before Christmas (talk about serendipity) so this displays well.

I offered to return the First Class sash to the seller as a sign of goodwill but he seems more than happy for me to keep the sash. It passes the black light test. And the weave and pattern appears similar to other First Class examples.

I'll be on a look-out now for a proper First Class badge at the next Morton & Eden auction!

Gavin

Wow! You guys have sharp eyes.

I was struggling just to identify the big stars on Hirohito's chest ...

Well, I'm very happy to report that shortly after posting this, the seller has refunded me some funds through Paypal while I keep the medal.

The end result is I've purchased a Fourth Class medal, albeit on the more expensive side.

It's easy to confuse the First Class and Fourth Class badges given they look so much alike, even more so when this is a very good quality example made by Lao Tian Li, a former Imperial cloissonne master craftsman.

Time and grime had also masked the gilding or lack thereof and It was only after cleaning the medal that it became obvious.

It was an honest and easy mistake by the seller and he has been very decent to resolve it quickly.

Second photo

I recently purchased this Striped Tiger badge which was advertised by the seller as a rare First Class sash badge.

After receiving it, however, it appears to be a Fourth Class badge.

* While it had three stars at the top, only four of the inner rays are gilded (top, bottom, left and right). This is the same as a Fourth Class badge which has three stars and gilding on only four rays.

The First and Second Classes have gilding on all of the inner circle of silver rays.

* It is less than 70 mm in width whereas the First and Second Class badges are closer to 80 mm.

To say I'm disappointed would be an understatement. I'm attaching two photos which show the medal in different light.

Would anyone be able to comment one way or other?

Luckily I paid with Paypal so I'm covered in the event of a dispute.

Just received, a vintage press photo of Prince Hirohito reviewing a Grenadier Guard of honour on his visit to London in 1921.

In 1921, Prince Hirohito took a six month tour of Europe, including the United Kingdom, France, Italy, the Netherlands and Belgium, becoming the first Japanese crown prince to travel abroad. After his return to Japan, he became Regent of Japan (Sessho) on 29 November 1921, in place of his ailing father who was affected by a mental illness. (Wikipedia)

In addition to the Supreme Order of the Chrysanthemum and the Order of the Rising Sun, he appears to be wearing the Order of the Royal Victorian Order and the Order of the Bath. Both British Orders were conferred in May 1921 and revoked in 1941.

Hirohito was also awarded the Order of the Garter in 1929. This was revoked when Japan entered World War II in 1941 and the banner of Emperor Hirohito of Japan was removed from St. George's chapel. That banner and the Japanese monarch's knighthood were restored by Elizabeth II in 1971, at which time he made a State visit to the United Kingdom. The Emperor was particularly pleased by the restoration of his banner as a Knight of the Garter. Perhaps curiously, Victor Emmanuel II of Italy remained a Stranger Knight after Italy entered World War II against the United Kingdom and her Allies, until his death in exile in 1947. (Wikipedia)

Thanks Dieter for your tips on storing / preserving vintage photos!

Hello Kim,

Looks like a good 3rd Class to me. The shade of the ribbon is a little different to others I've seen but this could simply be the water damage. The cloisonne enamel looks genuine but it is sometimes difficult to tell from a photo.

Two 3rd Classes recently sold at the Spink 21 April 2011 auction. Do a catalogue search on their website and you'll be able to retrieve the photos to compare with this example.

Thanks Paul and 922F.

I'd earlier left a message with the OMSA ribbon bank and waiting for a reply. You never know, might be lucky.

I've bought some ribbons from Zeljko, who has been very helpful. The cost of commissioning a minimum 50 metres of sash or ribbon from Zeljko or another seller is probably prohibitive. Could well end up holding a single $600 medal and $5000 worth of ribbon ...

I'm checking for home sewing / weaving machine which you could program to makde ribbons. A different process is involved (weaving as opposed to stitching). You'd think that if they could churn these out 150 years ago in a backroom with a hand operated loom, there'd be a home machine in the 21th century age of mass consumerism and technolog you could buy.

Will keep hunting.

Gents,

After pulling my hair out trying to find replacement ribbons for some obscure Orders, does anyone know of companies that do custom-made ribbons?

I've tried asking around and the minimum order always seems to be 100 metres!

I've tried matching ribbons from other medals but as you'd know, the shade is always a touch too light, the white stripes too narrow, etc, etc ...

Any pointers gratefully received.

Amazing photo of the guy!

It makes you yearn for more elegant times - when gentlemen were gentlemen, and you won't get beaten up walking down the street wearing a sash draped across your shoulder.

Cholera, open sewers and halitosis are just minor inconveniences for the chance of wearing all that bling ...

Thanks for posting this Richard.

I've never seen a "Decoration to Japanese Comrades" or "Peaceful National Foundation Commemoration Medal".

As Peterson notes, these must be extraordinarily rare.

Hey Nick, where do you find these fascinating old books and articles! Thanks for posting these.

Interesting how the early lions faced right before turning left. I wonder if there was any symbolism behind the change.

If you assume it is a rising sun in the background (East), then the older lions are facing south whereas the later ones now face north. Nothing more than conjecture of course!

For other ribbons, Zeljko at Ribbonsshop is a good place to start.

He's very helpful and has a wide range of original and replacement ribbons. Sometimes, you might be lucky to find a similar ribbon belonging to another Order.

http://www.ribbonsshop.com/

Gavin

I recently picked up a Nanking Puppet / Wang Jingwei Government Order of United Glory, 4th Class, in its original case. I've been hunting for one for awhile so this was a lucky find.

"The Order of United Glory was instituted in 1943 by the puppet government following the Japanese invasion, and was awarded to Japanese officers and to Chinese collaborators who distinguished themselves in activities for the Japanese Government. Following the Japanese surrender in 1945 most of the insignia of this Order was destroyed." (reference: Spink)

It is missing the ornate pendant suspension and ribbon. I'm having a replacement suspension by a local jeweler but I'm struggling with the ribbon colour. There's very little by way of published information on this Order. From the limited sources I've managed to find, the ribbon colours are:

* Special Class - red with white border

* First Class - white with red border

* Third Class - red with two dark blue stripes set a centimetre or two in from the ribbon edge

* Sixth Class - dark blue with two white stripes set a centimetre or two in from the ribbon edge

Is anyone familiar with the ribbon colour of the Fourth Class?

I am thinking the Fourth, Fifth and Sixth Class may have the same ribbon (dark blue with two white stripes).

This would be similar to the Nationalist Government Order of the Precious Tripod which has the following coloured ribbons: First Class (blue with white border), Second Class (white with blue border); Third Class (red with two dark blue stripes - similar to the Third Class United Glory); Fourth to Sixth Class (dark blue with two white stripes - similar to the Sixth Class United Glory).

Any suggestions gratefully received.