Dr.L.

Hello Gavin -- No problem. Do let us all know if you get through to Bojidar's family. I will certainly post any new info for you and the others as it comes in. Take care. --- Tom

Hello Tom, thanks very much for the offer to purchase the photographs.

I think I will pass on the photo as the only connection I have to Bojidar is the calling card that came with the St Sava. So there's nothing really of historical significance that I need to unite with the photo.

It was a rewarding research project on my part though and I did think of purchasing the photo as a memento.

All the best, Gavin

Hello Gavin -- Hope all is well. Nothing new to report but I do have something I would like to share with you. We are clearing out several items in our collection in order to make room for new stuff. Among the Japanese war medals and George III medallions, we have decided to part with Bojidar's photo as well as a photo of the Yugoslavian Emabasy in Washington (taken ca. 1949). If you are still interested in the photo please let me know. Both items will be for sale soon but if interested I would be happy to deal with you directly.

Tom

Thanks Tom for sharing your latest research findings. This truly is a rewarding hobby regardless of the final outcome.

My only regret is that I have not been able to contact Bojidar's grand-daughter. She would have been able to share a very personal insight on the second half of Bojidar's life, after he began his new life in the United States.

Gavin

Hello -- I am a new member and was just looking through some of the articles and came across yours regarding this large, silver Italian Red Cross medal. I'm not sure, after such a long time, if you are still an active member or if you revisit this particular conversation. If you are still "there", I'd like to know, do you still own this item? If so, and you find my note, I'd like to talk about the medal with you. Thanks very much. --- Tom

I have another version of a similar medal with the Croce Rossa insignia. It seems to date from 1902 per the inscription. It is heavy silver and just under 7 cm in diameter. The full Text around the edge reads: AI BENEMERITI DELLA CROCE ROSSA ITALIANA. The engraved inscription reads: Florio, CAV Vincenzo, Torneo Palermo 1902. I've included an image with this message. I'll have to try the other side in a new message.

Hello All -- I was interested to read some of the more recent comments sent by our colleagues in the Club. Wanted to give you all an up-date on our continuing research. But first I wanted to comment or rather clarify something. Milan wrote about lists of individuals having received orders and medals, and rightly speaks of the limited availability of such lists. The clarification is that in checking on Mr. Pouritch, no such list was used to try and identify him as a recipient. Rather both the Consul and the Embassy staff checked his "work file." We now continue to get a great deal of information on the man, but nothing attests to his receiving a medal of any kind. The up-date portion is that we have had communications with the Serbian government, with the aid of the Embassy. Their representatives could find nothing linking Pourtich to any medal except that on occasion he had presented them to others on behalf of the government. And to partially answer Gavin's concern about such a member of the diplomatic corps not receiving any recognition, the Serbian government suggests that with the upheaval of the time and the rapid change of administrations, Mr. Pouritch may have been overlooked. We know more about his education, his personal writing, and the like. So we here have come to know the man as well as the diplomat. That in itself has been most rewarding. My thanks to all for following the "chatter." Little did you know Gavin, that by purchasing this beautiful medal, how much interest and research you would inspire! Thanks! --- Tom

Thanks Lambert, and the same applies to you and your fantastic website!

Please keep posting on your medals blog!

Gavin

Hello Gavin -- Thought I should let you know about our latest information. We have contacted and spoken with both the Serbian Consulate and the Serbian Embassy. The Consul and an official from the embassy have confirmed that Bojidar Pouritch did NOT receive the the Order of St Sava 4th class, nor any other award that would be stated in his file. We did get considerable other pieces of information for the research that we are conducting, but I thought you should know. Rather disappointing. --- Tom

Thanks for this Tom. It sure is looking more and more mysterious.

One thing I'm a little confused about is the second non-ebay sale comprising the Yugoslav Crown Commanders' Cross.

Did the description say Pouritch was presenting a Yugoslav Crown Commanders' to the disabled veterans, or that Pouritch was presenting a St Sava Commanders? If the former, than there is no evidence that he was also presenting St Sava Commanders, or that the French ebay St Sava was presented by Pouritch.

Unless of course the calling card between French ebay St Sava and the Yugoslav Crown was the same (same creases, etc). If so, this would suggest they were swapped between the two items.

Gavin

Hi Gavin -- To clarify, yes, it was the Crown medal that he presented to the injured soldiers. The logic here is that if he was in the position to present medals, the St Sava medal would also be among those he would present. As for the French medal, we have looked at both ((photos) and we all agree that it was/is the same medal and card for the St Sava. I think more to the point, in addition to all of the offices he held for the kingdom, there is no record of any medal being received by him. There is always the possibility that the card was swapped, but why for the same medal? I could see maybe swapping between the 4th class and say the grand cross, to imply a higher award, But why swap between two medals of the same rank? I agree this is more complex than expected. We are looking in three other cities here in the U.S. for information and several national and international organizations. If this guy really got a medal we should be able to find it. Even at the 4th level, being the high visibility figure that he was, there must be some confirmation. Of course the lack of it would prove otherwise. I'll keep you posted. --- Tom

Thanks for this Tom. It sure is looking more and more mysterious.

One thing I'm a little confused about is the second non-ebay sale comprising the Yugoslav Crown Commanders' Cross.

Did the description say Pouritch was presenting a Yugoslav Crown Commanders' to the disabled veterans, or that Pouritch was presenting a St Sava Commanders? If the former, than there is no evidence that he was also presenting St Sava Commanders, or that the French ebay St Sava was presented by Pouritch.

Unless of course the calling card between French ebay St Sava and the Yugoslav Crown was the same (same creases, etc). If so, this would suggest they were swapped between the two items.

Gavin

Hello Gavin -- Well, making some headway on the search, but I don't think you'll like what I have so far. I'll start with the OK stuff first. The medal you purchased from Eiltemilitaria was sold on Ebay France on March 10 of this year. It sold for 251,01 Euros (forgot to convert the Euros so that will be for you to do). I know it's the same medal because it has the wrapper and the calling card with all the same "wrinkles."

The second thing is that also in France in another non-Ebay auction a medal, the Yugoslavian Order of the Royal Crown, Commanders Cross had Pouritch's name in the description and a card as well. Here is the kicker: when translated the description says the medal was given to disabled individuals who were injured in 1917-18 in Serbia, by King Peter II. The person PRESENTING the medals was, yep, you got it...Pourtich. So it would seem that our man was probably not the recipient of the medal you have, but rather the presenter, thus the calling card versus award documents for Pouritch.

We are still researching at the college. It was funny, one of our library staff found a website discussing the medal and Pouritch....it was this site! In any case, we'll see what more we can find, but thought you should know. The medal and card are still very important. Who knows, maybe we will confirm it's his after all.

Very best,

Tom

Thanks Tom, that's much appreciated.

I'll let you know how my contact with the grand daughter goes. I have both a Facebook and an email address.

Would be particularly interested to learn of the life after his move to the United States. The only information I have managed to glean from the interent are his US Social Security death records. It would appear that he and his wife lived a long (and hopefully happy) life together before both passing away in Illinois.

1. Bojidar POURITCH - U.S. Social Security Death Index

Birth: 19 Feb 1891 State Where Number was Issued: Illinois Death: Oct 1977

2. Dara POURITCH - U.S. Social Security Death Index

Birth: 4 Apr 1896 State Where Number was Issued: Illinois Death: Jan 1981

3. Douchan POURITCH - U.S. Social Security Death Index

Birth: 4 Jan 1929 State Where Number was Issued: New York Death: 28 Feb 1998

All the best and will be in touch again.

Gavin

Gavin -- I like your sense of humor..or should I say your sense for turnabout! I would hope that after you communicate with the grand-daughter that you will share with us what information that might be helpful, especially with regard to the medal. I will have our library here on campus continue the search for possible documentation as well. And sorry about the sign off, have to learn that as a restricted member, my two smiley faces with beer mugs only come out as the word "beer." Two of the documents that I have, lesser but original, are some of his day to day work. For some other selected documents I have facsimiles. Though I have been buying, selling and collecting medals and medallions for quite some time, my "meeting" Pouritch was a happy accident in researching Alexander I's assassination (with one thing and person leading to another). Good luck with your further research. I will let you know if we come across anything here as well. Later. --- Tom

Thanks Dr.L

What a coincidence to find two folks on the forum who had chased after the same photo and the same order! Although I shouldn't be surprised.

You are quite right that in the absence of an actual award document or a record listing Pouritch's decorations (have you come across such a list?), what we have is a coincidence of factors (Pouritch's career, the original cardboard box, the card ... ) strongly suggesting ownership.

But is not rock solid proof so Fourth Class St Sava 'attributed to' Pouritch would probably be correct.

It's interesting how much documentary information was available on the chap on-line - everything from League of Nation records, modern photographs of his Parisian residence, 1920s Time magazines and of course the original treaties wih him as signatory.

Hahaha, I should say the same about the photo! Should you ever wish to sell it ....

But I will get in touch with his grand-daughter who was looking for information on her famous ancestor.

Cheers, Gavin

Hello drclaw -- Thought you should know that I'm the one who purchased the original photo. Actually I had intended to bid on the medal as well but was away on business and too busy to bid (OK, I forgot all about it). In any case, I also have several documents pertaining to Pouritch. Originally I wanted to bid because I had already had his info and was surprised to see the calling card. However, nowhere in my research can I find that Pouritch was awarded the 4th Class St Sava medal. It would seem logical that he might have been given the decoration since the medal was given for service to the Kingdom. And as you note in your initial posting, he certainly did serve his country well. But there is no real provenance linking this medal to the man, the card notwithstanding. And Elitemilitaria never really says that it is his medal, only that the medal is accompanied by the card. So there is it is...or isn't. Should you ever wish to sell this medal, do let me know. :beer:Cheers!

And here's a photo of the dashing young man himself. Taken around the time he was engaged to the Chicago heiress!

Unfortunately, the original photograph has been sold or it would have made a perfect accompaniment to the order and calling card.