Bilco

Hi Peron,

You have the Official Type 1 - designed by Morlon - made by Janvier-Berchot. The triangle has the cross and initials JB, with BR for bronze alongside. There is another example posted in this thread - page 3 #46. It also comes with the triangle alone - on this thread there are a couple of examples - page 2 #29 and #36.

See also http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/46156-french-hallmarks/

Bill

Hi Peron,

Another nice example, with the O Spaniel clearly visible.

Bill

Hi Jim - I was just looking at the photos of the reverses of the two medals. The Navy one has matching backstraps, but the Army one only shows 3 backstraps, one thin and two wider. Otherwise, on the Army one I see a Sector clasp with stars, a Sector clasp with Battle clasps, and different fonts for the lettering between the top two clasps and the bottom two. (This is a non-exhaustive list)

Bill

Hi Jim,

Many thanks for a very comprehensive run-down on the clasps and medal. So many traps for young players! I must admit, I thought the colour of the medal was odd, and to see two with that colouring, plus suspect clasps ....

It all goes into my knowledge files

Bill

Hi Rob,

I see what you mean - the name and other engraving are unusual. The other vic with the suspect Italy clasp wouldn't be nearly so attractive.

If he did serve on destroyers presumably he would have received the Navy Destroyer clasp. I guess he wanted to show all his service on clasps that matched, rather than mix Navy and Army formats.

I have seen French and other fantasy clasps offered on eBay, but the prices are high.

Bill

WOW! Looking at the way the bidding went, someone really wanted that medal - a $170 jump in the bid - and then lost out by $5 to another one.

These fantasy clasps could be an interesting line to collect - but not for silly money. At least I was able to copy the photos and add them to my files. Free knowledge is the best!

Bill

Hi Lambert,

Yes - I agree. It all adds to our knowledge, though

Bill

Hi Lambert,

I think the clasps have Navy titles but are in Army format -

I'm not sure about the medal - an odd colour. This seller has another for sale - item no 330829385526 - which is a similar colour, and suspect clasps.

Bill

Hi Peron,

You have two nice examples there. The Paris Mint cornucopia and BR on the Morlon are very clear.

Bill

Hi Gents,

An unusual US Vic on eBay, item no 330829393381

Bill

Hi Jim,

Many thanks for the confirmation. To illustrate the differences between the Unofficial Type 1 and Repro Type 3 I now have this:

Left Unofficial Type 1, right Repro Type 3. The difference in colour is very striking.

On the obverse the most obvious difference is on the right tip of Victory's wings and the folds of her robe; on the reverse the difference in the top lettering is most obvious in the word PER - the R is quite different - and also the G of GVERRA. The letters are also rather smaller on the Repro, and the spaces between the words are larger.

Both medals are rather crudely made compared to the Official types.

Bill

Hi Gents,

My latest acquisition - I think it's the Italy Reproduction Type 3:

Obverse

Reverse.

Laslo says it 'Appears to be a contemporary version of the Unofficial Type1' with minor differences to obverse and reverse, especially the lettering at the top of the reverse. It is lighter in colour than the Unofficial Type 1, being coppery-bronze. The planchet is 34mm diameter but, unlike Laslo's description, the planchet is thin, at just under 2mm.

It appears to be die-struck, with striations on the edge, and the staffa is rather crude compared with the Official versions. The ribbon is watered silk - not apparent in the photos. Czech manufacture?

Any comments welcome.

Bill

Jaybo - if you post this in the Interallied Victory Medals of the Great War section - http://gmic.co.uk/in...-the-great-war/ - I'm sure someone there will be able to answer your question.

Bill

Hi Gents,

I'm now in a position to post better photos of the 'Cuban Copy' in post #25:

Obverse

Reverse

The worn gilding and the die crack on the reverse are very visible. The planchet is 36mm diameter and 2.5mm thick.

To compare with Official Charles Victory medals I've made these:

Obverses of (L-R) French Unofficial Type 1, Cuban Official, 'Cuban Copy' The figure of Victory has differences in the arms, sleeves and drapery of the robe, as well as the wings

Reverses (L-R) Cuban Official and 'Cuban Copy'. Lots of differences in the Cuban Arms on the shield in the centre, the leaves and the size of the lettering. The stalks at the bottom pass through the S of RUSIA and N of CHINA.

It obviously isn't a casting from an original - certainly not the cast French Repro mentioned by Laslo - and the crack on the reverse suggests that it is die struck.

So, what would be the correct nomenclature for the 'Cuban Copy'? Was it made as a replacement or interim medal for veterans - hence an Unofficial - or specifically for collectors - hence a Reproduction? It does appear worn and slightly battered as if it is old, but we see artificially aged medal copies being offered all the time.

After it failed to sell at the second time of offering on eBay I contacted the seller and negotiated a reduction in price. Sadly, this was more than offset by the duty charged on it by UK Customs. I should have asked him to send it uninsured!

Any comments welcome.

Bill

Hi Gents,

Another find from fossicking amongst the web - on a South African auction site:-

A rather odd-looking suspension, and the ring looks thicker and smaller than usual. I don't think it's a miniature, judging by the ribbon, and it's not called such on the site. Is it a recent issue by the SA authorities, or possibly someone has replaced the original suspension?

Bill

Hi Gents,

At the end of the second extract linked in post #133 Wayne Homren talks about telling the story of how Weil and the Medallic Art Company got paid for their work on the WW1 Vic at "a later time". I can't find anything else about it on the E-sylum, but I think the story is here

http://medalblog.wordpress.com/2010/11/22/the-institute-of-heraldry-%E2%80%A8loves-medallic-art-company/

on the blog by D Wayne Johnson.

Bill

Hi Gents,

While hacking my way through the Internet jungle I came across a web site for The Numismatic Bibliomania Society, called the E-sylum. I did a search on the contents of their archive for WW1 Victory medals, and turned up some correspondence from 2005, concerning a strange Victory medal find.

The query about this find is here http://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v08n39a11.html

under the heading FRASER VICTORY MEDAL TRIAL FOUND?

The response is here http://www.coinbooks.org/esylum_v08n41a16.html

under the heading FRASER VICTORY MEDAL NOT A DIE TRIAL

Might be of interest?

Bill

And the remainder:

Bill

Second tranche:

Bill

Hi Gents,

As promised, the close-ups from my Unofficial Type 2:

Bill

Hi Gents,

My latest acquisition, continuing the theme of Romania. It's the Unofficial Type 2, with reversed N and C instead of G.

Obverse

Reverse

The planchet is 36.3mm diameter and 2.3 mm thick, with ball suspension. It's quite light in colour, and the details are sharply struck.

I'll post enlargements tomorrow.

Any comments welcome.

Bill

Hi Kano,

The discussion on this site - http://www.lancs.ac.uk/staff/hartleyi/acediscussion.htm - might help. It's mainly for the Aircrew Europe Star, but the comments on the crown, star and ring should read across.

Bill

Hi Lambert - yes, I think you have it! I hadn't thought of sugar cane.

Bill

Hi Rob,

By 'is it banners?' I meant that the lower part of the background to Victory looks to my eye like a bunch of flags on poles, maybe suggesting the banners of a victorious army. The worn gilding certainly brings out the textures of the background.

I should have made it clear that my last two posts concern the same medal. At least the description was honest in calling it a Cuban-made copy. The big question is, was the asking price justified?

Bill

Hi Gents,

Well, this item didn't sell last night. Here are the pictures of it:

There are detail differences from the Official Type - for example, Victory's wings are more pointed and the tump she's standing on seems higher - and there isn't a 'C Charles' signature. On the reverse, the palm tree on the Cuban arms is smaller.

Bill