Bilco

Hi Jim,

Many thanks for your very interesting comments on this medal. A 'new' Official Type would really be something!

Maybe of interest - in the close-up of the reverse there are two marks on the rim at the 1 o'clock and 11 o'clock. In a thread in the Greece section there are photos of two Official Types http://gmic.co.uk/in...-victory-medal/ and the photos of the reverses there appear to show the same marks. Could they be flaws in the die, and would this indicate that Darrel's and Tim's Official Types and my medal were all struck from the same dies?

Bill

Hi Gents,

My latest acquisition - the Greek Unofficial Type 1, with 'HENRY NOCQ' incised inside the rim of the obverse. Diameter is 36.8mm

Obverse

Reverse.

The obligatory close-ups:

Obverse

Reverse

The medal came with the cardboard box it was issued in:

Outside

Inside, showing the stamp of V Canale.

How many of these were made, compared with the Official version - how does it compare in rarity and desirability, and what effect does this have on the pricing?

Any comments welcome

Bill

Hi Jaeger,

Seeing his aiguillette I wondered if he was an attache - could he be this man? http://murphyfuneralhome.frontrunnerpro.com/runtime/196/runtime.php?SiteId=196&NavigatorId=31048&op=tributeObituary&viewOpt=dpaneOnly&ItemId=748611&LinkId=221

Bill

Hi Lambert - there is a photo of two medal groups similar to yours here http://gmic.co.uk/in...adian-brothers/

These show the correct order of wearing with and without the 1914-1915 Star.

Bill

Another find on the US Militaria Forum - a vic with a bar showing a torpedo with 'TUSCANIA' on it. http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t15200.html

I hadn't heard before about the sinking of the troopship Tuscania, taking US Army units across to France, so this is very interesting. I assume the bar is an unofficial addition, created by the association of the survivors of the sinking - they seem to have had several conventions after the Great War.

Bill

Wel, Heddwch ac Blwyddwyn Newydd Dda to you Lambert - and to everyone I've come to know through GMIC and our shared interest.

And a very impressive display of vics, Lambert!

Bill

Hi Jim,

Many thanks for clarifying the ribbon issue - I read through the postings from before the creation of our special Interest section some time ago, and obviously misunderstood what was being said.

Another web site I've found on a Google safari - http://www.ww1medals.net/WW1-US-Navy-Victory-medals.htm There is also a page for the Army.

This page shows a letter laying out the Navy criteria for applying for the Victory medal. In the examples shown below it I see there is a fake 'Russia' Navy clasp. Also shown is the ribbon with the figure 3 on it - is the meaning of this determined? I read somewhere that it was worn by members of the Army 3rd Division, but I'm not sure if this is correct.

Happy New Year.

Bill

Hi Clive,

The first ribbon does look like the early US version of the Victory Medal - there is a very similar pair of ribbons here http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/21214-us-ribbon-bar/ in post # 2 the lower bar. What do you think?

Bill

Hi Lambert,

You have two nice, rather unusual miniature bars there. On the second, I think the Military Cross should be first rather than last on the mount. It's curious how, on the first set each medal is sewn on with thread matching the ribbon, while on the second Pip, Squeak and Wilfred are sewn on with black and the MC with white. The second set are on a Spinks mount - they would be expected to know the right order of wearing.

Bill

Hi Jim - No, I hadn't noticed the reversed medal! Is it a Reissue Type, either with bevelled lug or tab suspension, or just a rather heavy bead of solder on a Type 2?

Bill

Hi Gents,

Off on another safari through Google I came across the US Militaria Forum, which has a section of the WW1 US vics.

One thread caught my eye - http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=19125 - in post #4 there are a couple of tables extracted from the Gleim Letters showing the various manufacturers of the Navy clasps and how to tell them apart.

Apologies if gentlemen here are posters on that Forum too, but I mention it as it may be of help/interest. The whole WW1 US vic section is worth a trawl through.

Bill

Many thanks for that info, Jim.

Bill

Hi Rob,

After a bit of a focus faff - here it is

At this size it looks like it says 'FRAMCE'! I see now that the rough edge isn't caused by the off-centre stamp.

Bill

Hi Gents,

One one of my Googling excursions I've come across this thread on a French site which deals with the Siam vic. It has some admirably large, clear photos of the variants and some discussion of the makers.

http://zitocland.forumpro.fr/t15359-siam-interalliee

Hope it's of interest,

Bill

I think this bar is discussed here http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/3219-imperial-fakes/page__st__40 post #58 onwards.

Bill

Hi Gents,

I've just come across the on-line catalogue for the Watson Medal Collection in the Fitzwilliam Museum, in Cambridge. http://www.fitzmuseum.cam.ac.uk/dept/coins/collection/watson/

This collection has been mentioned a couple of times on the GMIC Forum in the past. However, I found a section in the catalogue dealing specifically with the Inter-Allied vics - there are 13 in the collection, covering most of the Allied nations. They are here http://www.fitzmuseum.cam.ac.uk/dept/coins/collection/watson/catalogue/index5.html just below section E (no, it isn't called F!).

The collection was amassed in the late 1920s, according to the catalogue notes. Of interest is the Great Britain vic, which the notes say is un-named, and seem to imply that none were named. The Japanese is correctly catalogued as a copy, and the Greek is the 'no-O' version. Does anyone have any other observations of the medals shown?

Just shows - we are following in a long tradition of Inter-Allied vic collectors.

Bill

Hi Rob,

Thanks for the confirmation. There is no other stamping on the rim - no Bronze. On the ribbon - it's one of the 39mm wide ones - my Italian original ribbons are 37mm. French ones are 36mm!

Bill

Hi Gents,

Well, having given up on the Type 1 in the face of modern copies, my latest acquisition is this:

What I believe is a Repro Type 1, French-made US vic. The planchet diameter is 36mm, thickness 2mm, and it has 'Made in France' stamped - rather poorly, and in tiny letters - on the rim.

Obverse. The rough edge at the 5.30 is where the 'Made in France' stamp went off the rim because it wasn't aligned properly.

Reverse.

At least it's a good, honest Repro - I hope! All comments welcome.

Bill

The medals of Colour Sergeant Stephen Bardsley have been sold for £118,000 - http://www.bosleys.co.uk/

He has an unusual Bronze Star to add to his Military Medal and BEM.

Bill

Ancestry have just put the Silver War Badge database online - http://search.ancestry.com/search/db.aspx?dbid=2456&o_xid=49820&o_lid=49820&o_sch=Email

Of course, you need a subscription to read it - but perhaps not tonight - there is free access to war time records today in honour of Pearl Harbour.

Bill

With regard to the black bar and the wearing by mothers of their deceased sons' medals - in the Belgium thread, subject the Commemorative medal of WW1, there is some discussion of this, and a photo of a mother wearing her son's medals http://gmic.co.uk/in...-war-1914-1918/ post #20

Hope this helps.

Bill

Hi Lambert,

Thanks for posting the photo of João da Silva's original design for the Portuguese vic. It seems that there is always something new to learn about these Interallied medals!

Bill

Jim,

This is all very interesting. I had assumed the existence of a Type 1 only on the basis of seeing it in Laslo. He shows a photograph of one, but I don't know the source of his photos - I don't have the book. He doesn't seem to mention the Type I in the description of the designing and production of the US vic - could it have been a pre-production model, or a short-lived early production version like the Type 1 Great Britain vic?

Would it be possible for you and Rob to post a photo or two of your Type 1s to give a better idea of the appearance, and the pointers to look out for in detecting modern repros?

Bill

Hi Jim,

Sorry about the rampant thread creep - Grandpa has been in my mind because of Rememberance Day.

I'll be very interested to see what the results of your research into the reality of the Type 1. As far as I can see there hasn't been one posted on this Forum - the closest was a bevelled-lug version here http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/49863-american-us-victory-medals/

Best wishes,

Bill

Rob, Jim,

Many thanks for your comments on the Type 1 - it's obviously a subject fraught with pitfalls for the unwary. I was quite surpirised to see four of them on e-bay looking very similar, but I had thought the one with the frayed ribbon was good as it is with a reputable dealer. Just goes to show how you can be caught out when someone has taken a good but common Type 2 and substituted the modern copy for the medal.

Jim, I found my grandfather's grave in Brisbane in 2009 - I was the first one of his family to visit it, as his wife and daughters were back in England when he died. He last saw them in January 1942, when they were evacuated from Singapore, and he and his wife had finally made contact by letter the month before he died. My mother, his elder daughter, married my father in the November. My father had also been in Singapore with the RAF and, like my grandfather, managed to get away just ahead of the invading Japanese. My grandfather had joined the Navy as a boy of 14 in 1907, served through WW1 and retired in 1937. He rejoined the Navy in 1938 and was sent out to Singapore. He and a couple of other Naval officers stole a boat rather than surrender, and sailed across to Java, being bombed and machinegunned en route. He was picked up and taken to Australia. I have to admit to a dampness of the eye and tightness of the throat when I stood in front of his CWGC gravestone.

Bill