Bilco

Hi Gents,

Pictures of the reverse:

Close-ups:

Looks OK to my uneducated eye - any comments welcome.

Bill

Hi Gents,

Well, having given up on the Type 1, I've just acquired this Type 2 with 2 clasps:

Close-up of obverse ....

... and the clasps

The Meuse - Argonne clasp has spacer pieces.

Reverse pics in a separate posting.

Bill

OK - Ancestry turns up just one record for this man:

Kriegsranglisten und -stammrollen des Königreichs Bayern, 1. Weltkrieg 1914-1918 Bavaria, Germany, WWI Personnel Rosters, 1914-1918 about Franz Xaver Biechl

Name: Franz Xaver Biechl Birth Date: 10 Nov 1881 Birth Place: Wotting Lohhirchen (Mühldorf A. Bayern (Bavaria)) Combat Arm: Infanterie Type of Unit: Reserve-Infanterie-Regimenter Unit: Bayer. Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 2 (München) Volume:

2454. Kriegstammrolle: Bd. 1

Bill

Hi Chris,

Would this be your man:

Kriegsranglisten und -stammrollen des Königreichs Bayern, 1. Weltkrieg 1914-1918 Bavaria, Germany, WWI Personnel Rosters, 1914-1918 about Lorenz Biechl

Name: Lorenz Biechl Birth Date: 3 Jul 1895 Combat Arm: Infanterie Type of Unit: Ersatztruppenteile der Infanterie-Regimenter Unit: II Ersatz-Bataillon/2. bayer. Inf. Regt. (München) Volume: 4502. Gesamt-Renner

There are several sets of records for him, but this unit seems to fit.

Bill

Hi Jim,

Oh dear! I wonder if they know. It's also on e-bay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Inter-Allied-Victory-Medal-U-S-Submarine-bar-s1881-/350467174464?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item519978b040 where they give their policy on not offering " copies, replicas or restrikes".

Please enlighten me on what you see that shows it up as a modern repro - I desperately need this sort of knowledge!

Bill

Hi Jim,

Many thanks for your comments. I think the 2 dubious UK items come from the same source as the 2 US ones - http://www.ebay.co.u...=item2c5d008eb8 The description shows them as new, and the price asked is a bit of a give-away.

The item that does look good http://www.picardyan...6aid%3DS1959%26 is on a completely different level as far as price is concerned, although the 'Submarine' clasp may also have something to do with it!

Oh well, I'll just have to dream for a while longer.

Bill

Hi Gents,

A question about the US Official Type 1, "wire-loop" version. I've seen 5 of these for sale in the last day or two, one has an old, ragged ribbon and a bit of a patina, while the others, 2 in UK and 2 in the US, look pristine - medal, ribbon and pin bar (none of them have clasps).

Are these 4 likely to be fakes or modern repros? Was the "wire-loop" version much less common, and so worth faking? I'd really like to have this version, but don't want to be ripped off!

Bill

HI Gents,

My latest acquisition - the Belgian Unofficial Type 3 Uniface

Close-up of the obverse:

Designer's name not shown:

Close-up of reverse:

The planchet is 36.5mm diameter. I was surprised at how thin it is - 1mm at the 3 o'clock, and 2mm over the lady's sticky-out bits. Still, as it was meant to be a cheap, temporary expedient until the official one came out, I suppose it didn't need to be too thick.

In Lazlo it's included under Belgium, but am I right in thinking it was made for the French market? On this web site http://www.medailles...medailledb.html it's shown under France.

Bill

Hi Gents,

Many thanks for your responses to my query. I took them all on board and kept them in mind today the the Stratford Fair. I did my research into prices, and had a little list of the things I was looking for.

It was a big affair, although not too crowded, and I enjoyed looking at everything and chatting to the stall holders. As it happened, there was nothing that would have tempted me to risk a divorce - I was after WW1 Interallied Victory Medals, and the few that were on display didn't match my wants list. I didn't come away empty-handed though, and managed to get a small reduction on the item I did buy! Best of all, I made a couple of contacts which I hope will help me to get the stuff I want in future.

It was an interesting experience, and I'll know what to expect in future.

Bill

Hi Gents,

I'm going to my first medal fair this weekend, and I wondered if there was any etiquette to be aware of when buying. Is it allowed to bargain - or even expected? When I buy in a dealer's shop I usually ask " can you do anything on this for me?" and often get a few percent reduction, especially if I'm paying with cash or a debit card - credit card sales seem to be disliked.

Am I allowed to take the medal out of its envelope to examine it - should I ask first?

Is it preferable to pay in cash - will cash payment make a small reduction more likely?

I expect a medal bought at a reputable dealer's shop or web site to be genuine - can I expect the same at a fair, or is it more likely that there will be dodgy stuff there?

I guess one doesn't buy anything before looking at all the stalls - it would be tragic to buy something and find it cheaper on the next stall! On the other hand, it would be equally tragic to see something early, come back later, and find it gone.

Any help/comments/ anecdotes much appreciated.

Bill

Is it the one mentioned here? http://www.homeofheroes.com/moh/corrections/purge_army.html

Bill

Hi TS - You may like some of the army humour on this web site about WW1 - shows up some differences between the Officers and ORs http://www.firstworl...s/satirical.htm

On officers' accents - there was and is a tendedncy for public school chaps to use the "long A" - class pronounced "clarss" and past as "parst". The alternative is to say them "short". My first pilot was ex-public school and used to twit me about my "short As" (not my height). We used to quote to each other the phrase "Get aft abaft the after mast you daft bastard" or as he would say "Get arft abarft the arfter marst you darft barstard". This accent was mocked by the ORs who called officers "orfficers".

Bill

TS - do you know the poetry of Rudyard Kipling, who knew India well. He has a few lines about an expensively educated (public school) young officer being killed by a Pathan with a cheap rifle -

A scrimmage in a Border Station -

A canter down some dark defile -

Two thousand pounds of education

Drops to a ten-rupee jezail –

Kipling has lots of good stuff about the Army in India and later - e was born in India - see http://www.kipling.org.uk/kip_fra.htm

His poetry fell out of favour as being too Jingoistic - at least, until his son was killed in the First World War, a young subaltern.

Bill

Maybe the dropped letter referred to is the final 'g' - as in "Huntin', shootin', and fishin'" ?

Bill

Tim - Sorry to hear that you're leaving the GMIC. Thank you for setting up this Interallied Victory Medal section as a separate part of the Forum, and for your kind and helpful replies to my postings. Your posts and photos will remain a useful resource for everyone.

Best wishes,

Bill

Just realized this article is by GMIC member Gunner 1 - see posts 5 - 11 on this thread!

I may be slow, but I get there in the end.

Bill

I've been following up a reference I found while surfing to an article on the Type 1 British vic, and have just received the September 2009 issue of the Journal of the Orders and Medals Research Society, which has the article in it. The piece is by Dr Richard Flory and runs to 8 pages, giving a very detailed history of the background to the move from the Type 1 to the Type 2.

If anyone is interested in getting a copy, they can be bought from Peter Helmore, POBox 1233, High Wycombe, HP11 9BW, UK, for £5 including postage within the UK. I'm not a member of the OMRS.

Bill

Hi Lambert - A real eye-opener to see so many vics that are faked! Even the Italian Sacchini - the designer and manufacturer names look as if they are impressed, quite unlike any that I've seen before. And yet he seems to have an excellent approval rating. Buyer beware!

Bill

Hi Gents - yes, I'm back on the Italian vics again!

My latest acquisition - an Official Type 4, thanks to GMIC member Noor who sold it to me.

Obverse

Reverse

No maker's name, and dates MCMXIV - MCMXVIII. Planchet diameter 36mm, thickness 2mm.

Any comments welcome.

Bill

Hi Alf - I'm told that the Marche aux Puces de Vanves - flea market at the Porte de Vanves - is good for medals. Open on Saturday and Sunday.

Bill

Hi Lambert - a nice medal, and great photos, bringing out all the little details. You have the same long name version of the L&C that I have, with the bottom of the S of Castelli horizontal rather than sloping down to the left, and the final L and I rather crammed in at the end.

Bill

Hi Tim - Many thanks for your opinion on my latest US vic. To highlight the finish I've photographed my two examples side by side:

Obverse

Reverse

It looks like my Navy one has similar loss of the gold finish to yours, just on the upper left area of the obverse. From remarks on earlier postings about the US issue I'm not sure if the gold finish was a paint or some form of anodizing, but I guess that the durability of the finish is affected by the surface of the underlaying metal. So, if there is moisture or oil from handling on the metal, the gold finish won't adhere so well. Or perhaps the finish is affected by the atmosphere the medal is kept in over the years. My new example doesn't seem to have any gold on the medal or the clasp!

Bill

The planchet is 36mm across, and 2mm thick at the 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock.

Bill

Hi Gents - I posted pics of my US vic with the Navy bar 'Grand Fleet' in post #19. I've just acquired another US vic with the Army sector bar 'France', and there are some interesting differences that I'd appreciate comments on. First the pictures:

Obverse

Reverse

Close-up of the France bar

The colour of this medal is patinated bronze, while the one in posting #19 has a gold finish that has worn off the high points, and the left side of the obverse has lost some of the gold surface.

The suspension on the new medal has the same bevelled knob as the other, but it doesn't have the thick ring of solder attaching it to the planchet - in fact it looks rather fragile in comparison.

The 'France' bar matches the colour of the new medal, and has no markings on the back strap. It has pulled the edges of the ribbon in, and I found that the ribbon is 39mm wide. The ribbon on the earlier medal is 36mm wide, hence the pulling in, so it looks like the ribbon is a replacement - the British ribbon is 39mm wide.

I guess the differences are down to different manufacturers. I notice that both medals have the name FRAZER in tiny raised letters on the right side of the tump that Victory is standing on - Laslo gives James Frazer as the designer, but doesn't seem to mention that the name is on the medal.

Any comments welcome.

Bill

Hi Gents,

Recently came across this site that is new to me http://www.medailles1914-1918.fr/francemedailledb.html

It has some interesting information on the Pautot/Mattei type, and covers much more than the Victory medals of the Allies.

May be of interest.

Bill