Bilco

Hi Gents,

I find this topic fascinating! I've just come across this site http://www.medailles1914-1918.fr/france-medaillew.html with some new (to me) variants and descriptions - may be of interest?

Bill

As well as the Unofficial Type 2 medal the packaging it arrived in from France also contained this little item:

It's a small piece of the ribbon, covered in some sort of clear film, and mounted on another of the barettes. Is this part of the original medal issue, meant to be worn on the uniform when the full medal isn't? I nearly throw the packaging away with it still inside, having extracted the medal!

Bill

This month's acquisition - the Unofficial Type 2 Pautot/Mattei:

Overall view - clean ribbon - original?

Obverse - very clean and sharp, and lighter in tone than my other 2 types.

Reverse

The impressed BRONZE marking high on the edge of the planchet. It's difficult to see but there is a mark before BRONZE that looks like 2 circles overlapping.

Any comments welcome!

Bill

Hi Lambert - commiserations - I've lost out on several nice medals on e-bay because of last-minute fumbles and stumbles. I guess I have about a 50% success rate so far. I lost out on a similar French vic a few weeks ago, although it went for more so I shouldn't complain. At least we know that I won't be in competition with you for the next one that appears!

Bill

My latest acquisition via e-bay - the Unofficial Type 1 French vic by Charles. Herewith the usual photos:

Looks like the original ribbon with the ball-ended bar mount.

Obverse

Reverse.

The 'BRONZE' and Chobillon triangular mark are on the rim, so it looks OK to me - any comments welcome.

Bill

Hi Tim - Thanks for that. I had missed the posts showing the thick and thin backstraps on Navy clasps, so it is useful to review page 33.

Those US clasps are a field of their own!

Bill

Hi Gents - My only US vic so far:

I think it's a Type 2 - planchet 2mm thick at the 3 and 9 o'clock - and the 'GRAND FLEET' clasp looks OK from the front. However, I haven't come across a pic of the reverse, and I'm wondering if the very thin backstrap is right. There is nothing impressed on the backstrap, nor on the rim of the medal.

Any comments welcome.

Bill

Hi Gents - I know that there have been no posts on this thread for almost 6 years (!) but I wondered if the situation had changed/clarified. I was offered this medal in a London medal dealer's in a box with a certificate from the Royal Mint no less, attesting to it's genuine origin - but was it issued to anyone? If the Royal Mint is selling copies Gawd 'elp us all!

Bill

Hi Gents - Been a while since there was activity here, but I recently came across this Guide to the Verdun medals, and thought it might be of interest.

http://www.picardyantiquesltd.com/shop/page/4?shop_param=

Bill

Hi Gents,

Just found this French phaleristic web site which gives the criteria for the award of the French vic http://www.medailles1914-1918.fr/france-interalla.html Also many other French medals.

Bill

Just come across this on UK e-bay - a mint-condition Belgian vic with original manufacturer's packaging

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BELGIAN-FIRST-WORLD-WAR-VICTORY-MEDAL-MINT-CONDITION-/140576049169?pt=UK_Collectables_Militaria_LE&hash=item20bafc4811

May be of interest to someone.

Bill

Hi Tim - very nice examples. The second Lorioli & Castelli has the same features as my 'long' version, with the bottom of the 'S' in Castelli horizontal rather than elongated down to the left like the 'S' in Orsolini, and the final 'L' and 'I' rather crammed in. The previous examples of the L&C I'd seen on this Forum are like your first example, and that's why I queried mine - now I'm really happy!

Presumably, with each manufacturer producing large numbers of these medals, they would have had several dies, and there would be variations between them - 3 in the case of L&C. The die sinker G Villa was proud enough to put his name to the Sacchini one - did he do all of the dies, or did each manufacturer employ its own die sinker?

Bill

Returning to my fixation with those Italian vics for a moment - my latest E-Bay acquisition - the Lorioli & Castelli short version

And the enlargements:

Obverse ...

... and reverse.

This poor old medal had had a hard life, judging from the various dings, although they are much more obvious in the enlargements than real life. Also, on the reverse some of the inscription at the bottom is missing. Is this likely to be caused by a mis-strike or worn die, or some other cause? The planchet isn't thinner here - 2mm, and the diameter is 36mm.

The ribbon is obviously a modern replacement, but the sharply defined bands of colour are different from the British replacement ribbons I've seen. Can anyone identify its likely origin?

Bill

There's yet another variety in the 'Ribbons in General' section http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/32078-ribbon-bars-help-please/ post #8

Bill

Hi Tim - Thanks for the link to the Medailles web site. A great resource.

Bill

Hi Tim - Thanks for the positive comment - and the translation of the symbols on the reverse. Very useful!

Bill

Just to show that I'm not totally fixated on those Italian vics! My latest acquisition - bought on e-bay - is this Japanese vic.

Obverse

Reverse

Enlargement of reverse.

It seems to compare very well with the examples on the original Inter-allied Victory Medals of the Great War thread, and the postings in the section on Japanese medals -

http://gmic.co.uk/in...al/page__st__20 particularly posts 27 and 33.

The subtlty of the die work is very good - in the flag at 12 o'clock on the reverse, inside the rectangular symbol, there is a disc shown by very fine hatching, with the horizintal part of the symbol overlaid, which is very clear under the magnifying glass. The ribbon is rather faded on the obverse side, but better on the reverse, which is complete with the hook and eye. Diameter is 36.5mm and thickness 2.5mm.

I welcome any comments.

Bill

Hi Tim - A couple of things spring to mind, now I've seen this thread.

First - I found that the best way to search the whole GMIC site was through Google site search. In doing this I've found posts about the WW1 vics in the postings for specific countries, sometimes with information that isn't on the WW1 Vics thread. Is there any mileage in listing these postings with links here?

Secondly - are the postings under the titles 'British Victory' and 'British Victory Medal' linked? The posting on the latter seems to be refering to the former, so perhaps they should all be under one title?

Thanks again for your efforts in getting this set up.

Bill

Hi Tim - I want to post something on the Japanese vic - should I just start a new thread or do you want to cut-and-paste the previous postings into the topic?

It's starting to look good with the threads already in place - many thanks for your efforts.

Bill

Many thanks for the news, Tim. The change seems to be seamless - the same URL and all.

Bill

Bill,

There are two different varieties of the italian type 3. The differences are in the manufacturers signature on the lower right. These differences have been highlighted earlier in the thread.

Regards,

Rob

Hi Rob - yes, thanks, I saw the posting. A long signature and a short signature. I have the long, from what I can see. I notice that there is a slight variation on mine - the 'S' in Castelli isn't elongated downwards, and the final 'LI' is rather crammed in compared with the one posted before. Is this significant?

Red face on the ribbon site - what I saw yesterday was the Victory medal of the Vichy government OOS, the French WW1 Victory medal was in stock, and still is.

Bill

Hi Rob - thanks for the verification of the ribbon. I think I'll have a go at removing the threads as carefully as I can. I wish I had more of the right ribbon - my Sacchini has a modern GB ribbon - not even watered. I found a link to this site http://www.worldmeda...Rib/forribb.htm but they don't list Italian and the French is OOS!

Bill

Rob - your comments about the ribbons reminds me of a query or two about my Italy Type 3 vic -

First query - is the ribbon the correct Italin one?

Secondly, you can see that the ribbon has been sewn to the staffa very crudely with thick orange/red thread. There is a big knot on the reverse, and the ribbon is distorted by it. Should I remove this thread and tidy up the ribbon?

Any help gratefully received.

Bill

Hi Gents - my latest acquisition, the Italian Type 3, Lorioli & Castelli.

I now have the Type 1, Type 2 and Type 3 - and to think, three weeks ago I didn't even know there were different Types!

Obverse

Reverse.

Following on from my query above about small Victory figures - looking through this forum I find the Unofficial Type 1 and Repro Type 3 both have the small Victory, and possibly the Type 5 (there was a picture of the Type 5 on this thread, but it seems to have been removed). I don't know how the small vic fits in with Laslo's Standing Victory, Walking Victory and Landing Victory (and I haven't yet discovered the differences), but it doesn't seem to be mentioned in his book -I managed to get my hands on a copy through Inter-Library Loan.

So much to learn!

Bill

In case this hasn't been seen - the Japanese victory medal with detailed translation of the award certificate.

http://www.imperialj...es.com/ww1.html

Bill