redeagleorder

I'd definitely go for the first one - but I collect to medics and non-combatants - so I'm heavily biased.

I do know that Oldenburg and Mecklenburg-Schwerin awarded their 1st Class crosses to people who did not have the EK1, but I don't know if the same also applied to the 2nd Class crosses. Probably, but I cannot say for certain. Has anyone seen medal groups with the Friedrich August Cross or Mecklenburg Military Merit Cross but no EK2?

They do exist, I have a medal bar in my collection with only a Prussian red cross 3rd class medal, Oldenburg Friedrich August Cross and Legion of Honour Veteran's Medal. Others can be seen for both states, generally the 2nd class cross allied with a Cross of Honour.

As an aside, Lippe-Detmold had it's own military merit medal whose rules were a little convoluted, but if I remember correctly was awarded to wounded soldiers who had not received the EK.

The Bavarian Militar-sanitats-orden 1st klasse would be a good shout. Only 11 awarded.

Maybe the engraving is different because Chris' example is a Spangenstueck, although that doesn't explain the lack of the name in the book...

I don't really know much about WW1 stuff, why would that be strange then? I have checked to see if the medal is the removable sort like the other bar but it is not, it has been on there from when it was constructed, do they share the same ribbon?

Thanks

jock

The Kriegsehrenmedaille (the one on the medal bar) was generally a home front award. It could be awarded either on the non-combattant ribbon or the combattant one, as could Lippe's Kriegsehrenkreuz (their basic bravery award).

My comment reflected the fact that it would be far more likely to see a Kriegsehrenkreuz in this combination, however the fact that the construction of the bar looks good, and that the Kriegsehrenmedaille (already rare in itself) was even more rarely awarded on the combatant ribbon, tends to make me like it.

One of our members has an excellent website on the awards of Lippe-Detmold: http://www.hausorden.de/

Construction looks good, although the Kriegsehrenmedaille, rather than the Kriegsverdienstkreuz, is a bit strange.

Bulgarian Order of St. Alexander?

Two of my family members served in WW1, both in the Royal Navy.

My maternal great-grandfather Peter Mejlaq and also Emanuele Zammit from my father's side of the family. Coincidentally both were at Gallipoli. All that has survived are a few photos and postcards from my paternal great-grandfather (who served on the Hibernia), some of which are quite interesting as they show a particular naval ship on the obverse and on the reverse contain notations such as 'this ship was blown up by a mine on' a certain date. Will try to dig them out from amongst the family pile...

Unfortunately all the medals were either lost or looted as both houses were destroyed during WW2 bombing raids.

These clasps were private purchase, you could buy as many as you wanted (and could afford).

Hi Guys,

What does everyone think about this MVK 1st Kl. with Crown and Swords

http://www.emedals.com/highlighted-offerings/germany/german-states/bavaria/orders/order-of-military-merit/a-bavarian-1st-class-mvk-with-crown-swords-case-of-issue-g13350

Well the box doesn't match it for starters...

Going back to Medal Bars from the Napoleonic Wars for a moment, do minis count?

What a stunner! Would I be right in supposing the second award is a Brunswick long service decoration?

Its the Friedrich Kreuz, awarded by the Duchy of Anhalt. The monogram on your belt buckle is probably from the same state.

Thanks Dave for that detailed explanation, sheds quite a bit of light on the subject.

Yes, the Hesse General Honour Decoration on my bar is the 'Fur Kriegsverdienste' version.

I assume that by war ribbon you mean the one with the wider red stripes, as generally seen on the 'Fur Tapferkeit version'? If so, my medal bar is the only one where I have seen both the Iron Cross on the black-white ribbon and the Hesse General Honour Decoration 'Fur Kriegsverdienste' on the ribbon with the narrow red stripes. I have seen 4 others with both these medals, and all the Hesse medals are on the war ribbon. Never noticed the difference before.

Matthew

I've shown this here before, but just as a reference, here is a medal bar I have with the same combination of combatant ribbon EK and non combatant Ehrenkreuz.

Thanks for that, it was just I was thinking non combatant too so does that mean the EK ribbon is the wrong sort or is that just for civilains the white ribbon?

Thanks again.

Jock

From what I know the Iron Cross was awarded on the non-combatant ribbon to civilians and certain soldiers (there are for sure a number awarded to deckoffiziers, If i remember correctly). However, there are also cases, like the bar above, where the recipient was a non-combatant yet received the Iron Cross on the combatant ribbon. I am not exactly sure why the difference was made (I believe Chris has more information on this than I do ), but there is certainly nothing 'wrong' with this ribbon.

Nice one!

The original recipient was probably a non-combatant, judging by the ribbon of the Brunswick War Merit Cross. The Iron Cross' ribbon, although the combatant version, is in this instance most likely one of those awarded on the combatant ribbon for services rendered at home, there are a few other examples in these threads, all of which can be identified by having an Ehrenkreuz without swords as can be seen on this bar.

Looks good to me.

I am wondering what the last ribbon on the bottom two (second to last on the top one) is supposed to be. From the colors and position, I would assume it is supposed to stand for a Bulgarian War Commemorative Medal, but the edge stripes are not the right width. Maybe a "close enough" substitute, but I don't recognize it.

Medal for Tyrol.

Sorry, but I don't like that bar. The catch for the pin on the back does not look original, the ribbons are strangely folded and I find it difficult to believe that such a man had no long service award.

Seeing as its behind the Austrian award, perhaps a Turkish Mejidie Order?

The colours for the Luitpold and Wedding anniversary medals are red with green edge stripes, whilst these are green with red edge stripes.

Very suspicious with the double Anhalt (although extremely farfetchedly one of them could be a Bavaria Agricultural medal, but apart from matching ribbon that is impossible). The thing that sticks out most for me is that it belonged to a Bavarian with an 1897 Centenary medal, yet no long service or Luitpold medal for 1905 or 1911? I don't like it.

Surely someone knowledgable must know what these are. OK, I will guess

1. EK 2

2. Saxon St. Henry

3. Red Eagle 3rd with crown

4 ?

5.Hessian General Honor Decoration For Bravery (medal and ribbon also look like Centenary Medal)

6. Mecklenburg Schwerin Military Merit Cross

7. Mecklenburg Strelitz Cross for Distinction in War

8. ?

9. Oldenburg Freidrich August Cross

10. Long Service Cross ?

11. Bruswick War Merit Cross

12. Saxe Meiningen Cross for War Merit

13. ?

14. ?

15-17 Hanseatic Crosses

4.) Prussian 25 Year Officer Long Service Cross

5.) Centenary Medal

8.) Hesse General Honour Decoration for Bravery

I am not sure why they are mounted in that order but with the ribbon bars it looks very convincing indeed!!

What's wrong with the order of mounting?

Simply beautiful!