redeagleorder

I think this is the same bar:

http://gmic.co.uk/index.php/topic/44932-saxon-gold-st-henry-medal-bar/?hl=scottplen#entry415051

Awesome medal bars Werner!

Very very nice

Perhaps the EK was worn in the buttonhole? I've got a similar bar with three enlisted grade bravery medals, one of the foreign, yet no iron cross.

To conclude, I've been trying to use the list on the back in order to help find the correct medals. If anyone disagrees please post your own opinions, as as I have already stated Wurttemberg is not my strong point. Now, I have said I used the list, but (and this seems even to me to be irrational), the last place does not look like a centennial medal when one judges it from the height. The ribbon is far too low, especially for such a massive medal as the centennial. Perhaps a tailor error? The medal certainly makes sense on every other count, and the only wurttemberg award that has a matching ribbon was given out too early for this man. Another possibility is perhaps a prinzengrosse?

Regards,

Matthew

I'm thinking an LD2 and a 21 years service cross for sixth and seventh place respectively. I think I can see some trace of a small round medal on the sixth place ribbon, as there is a less-faded spot. Once again, these are not my strong point.

LD2:

21 Years service cross:

The Silberne verdienstkreuz is probably in the next position. Judging by its location on the bar, I would say it is a pre-war no swords award, but if anyone has another opinion please say so as I am not 100% sure...

The Goldene Verdienstmedaille I do not know too much about, except that you already seem to have its ribbon ring. Wurttemberg liked to issue medals in solid gold, and this is not an exception as has already been pointed out. However, it appears there are silver-gilt versions (probably post-war replacements). (credit to ehrenzeichen-orden.de for the picture)

The third medal could be one of two (as there is an another ribbon like it). Going by that list, however, i would suggest the Silberne Verdienst-Medaille Konig Wilhelm II, instituted in 1892. The obverse looks like the WW1 bravery medal, but the reverse is significantly different... (credit to ehrenzeichen-orden.de for the picture)

Hi Paul,

You mention that you do not know what some of the awards look like... I'll try post some pictures for you (although be warned, Wurttemberg is not my strong point). Perhaps even if i get some of them wrong they will serve to highlight the right one

I won't insult your intelligence by showing you an iron cross.....

So, moving on to the second ribbon, I think its for a Wilhelmskreuz with swords. While swords normally indicate a combatant award, which this man was not, this cross was awarded with swords to members of the armed forces, not for combat.

Rick,

Was it actually stated in the statutes that a combatant ribbon would replace a non-combatant one, or was this done at the owner's discretion, and they could wear both of them if they so wished? Thanks.

Matthew

A lot depends on whether you want it in English or German....

Considering the schaumburg award has sabers, shouldn't the 'foreign' (to a Prussian) awards in front of it also have swords? Or is there the possibility that they did not have swords but were placed before because they were orders or were from much more important states than tiny Schaumburg-Lippe?

@Jason. Yes thats the one. Thanks for showing it. I like non-combatant awards and it appears that some states did not use a special ribbon for them, so the only way to tell is the honour cross.

@Dond. Yes I suppose it could be...

Just to show off mine again (hope you don't mind ). So according to the above information the one below is an early war issue cross:

Hmmm, did Baden have a specific non-combatant ribbon for their medal? If not, its quite plausible that they used the same ribbon and the wearer didn't leave Germany. I believe Jason has an example with a Wurt. silver medal and the Hansa states seem to have done this...

As a side note, your cross is like mine in that it has lost of its gilding (although unlike mine traces can be seen on yours), but the upper ring is still fully gilded. Could you check the Baden medal for the hallmark along the rim to see if it is silver or not? It would be interesting to see if it was issued up to 1916 or later in the war and therefore chronologically closer to the medical cross.

Cases like this are probably even rarer because probably when a recipient received both ribbons, he just wore the combatant one in order to show he had actually fought. Even the guy above, although wearing both also has the Vor dem Feinde bar to make sure no one questions how close to the front line he was!

Ah, that makes sense! So those crosses which still have most or all of their gilding left would seem to be the earlier versions made out of bronze, which doesn't react to the gilding. I agree with you, these crosses with the eichenkranz are not too common (I've been trying to find examples to compare to mine!). In the Hessenthal it says the wreath was awarded for service in 'Kriegsgebiete'. Does this refer to just the front line or were war zones defined as all occupied territory? For example, would a doctor working 50 miles behind the lines still be awarded a cross with the wreath?

Thanks,

Matthew

Thanks for the comments! Saschaw, I've looked over the cross pretty well and there is absolutely no trace of any gilding, even the part of the smaller ring which is usually under the ribbon. The only gilded piece of the medal is the upper ring which attaches the medal to the bar, which is completely gilded. If the gilding had worn off the medal so completely surely at least some of it would have gone from the upper ring as well?

Thanks a lot!

Matthew

Dunno what's rarer, that its for Belleau Wood or and EK1 to a private! Congrats on the doc!!!

Hello gentlemen,

I showed this medal bar some time ago with the Baden medic cross. Upon further research I have been unable to find a picture of one in this zinc colour, all of those I have found being gold in colour. It does not appear, from close inspection, that this cross was ever gilded. The only material I can find on this is that they were made from either goldbronze or Weißmetall vergoldet (if someone could explain these terms to me better I would be grateful). Does anyone know of a version like mine (perhaps a very late or post-war issue?)

Thanks

Matthew

@Solomon: No, there is no need to stay translating all the statutes. Thanks for the information!

Matthew

Hello gents (and friends of nice enameled roses),

to reactivate this theme, I would like to introduce to you my latest purchase.

Of course, it looks quite unspectacular, but the "Kriegervereinskreuz Lippe-Detmold" is quite a rare bird.

Unfortunately this bar is unnamed. The bar looks like an official (teacher...) or a doctor (indeed, I found one Dr.med. in the list).

Best regards

Roman

Can anyone explain the award criteria for this cross?

Thanks!

Hello all,

I am trying to find some information on the recipient of the only urkunde I have, that of a Hamburg Hanseatenkreuz awarded to a certain Rudolf Fredderich. A quick google search shows an artist of that name born in 1886 in Hamburg, so he seems to fit the bill. The urkunde lists the regiment as the Landwehr Infanterie Regiment 77 and the award date is 20th July 1917.

The award date fits the Kerensky offensive, but the only trace of the regiment I can find is on mobilisation in 1914. Basically what I would like to find out is where the 77th regiment was during this date, to see if it corroborates.

I can't make out the rank on the document, so i'll scan it tomorrow

Thanks a lot!

Matthew

No one else has any opinions/theories? Has anyone actually seen an example of the same award on different ribbons like above (apart from the 1870 participation medal)?

Matthew