Paul L Murphy

Japan seems to be one of the few countries where the price of medals has either remained stable or dropped. The same is true for Japanese coins and banknotes which have gone south since the bubble burst in 1991. Given the scarcity of some of the better Japanese and Manchurian items when compared with numbers of medals awarded in other countries my view is that they are now underpriced and could start to rise in price again soon. In particular I think the documents are undervalued (and long may that remain the case while I continue to build my collection of them !).

It is a very badly damaged Japanese Fire Brigade long service badge from the 1980s or 1990s.

Thanks Paul!!! What Class/Grade is the Order of the British Empire? Also, does the Defence medal fit in with this group?

Doc

As Jeff has already replied, it is an MBE. The Defense Medal does fit, she could have got it if she did home front related work with the Order of St John.

The last medal is the Service Medal of the Order of St John. Originally awarded for 15 years service (less if overseas) it is now awarded for 12 years service and each bar represents a further 5 years service.

I'm interested in this NIPPON KUNSHO KENKYU-KAI newsletter you mentioned. Is it still being done?

Thanks

John

And do you have back numbers ????

A number of years ago I put this small chart in old NIPPON KUNSHO KENKYU-KAI Newsletter I published that might be of interest. I had picked up a group of 18 Red Cross medals during a flea market expedition one day in Kyoto and tallied the marks found on them. Here are the results:

At the time I thought that perhaps the Red Cross Membership Medals might be marked with the I-RO-HA system, but I haven't found much beyond these, and the few kanji marked pieces seem to prove otherwise. There were several distinct die versions among the medals as well.

This is useful. These maker marks do seem to keep occuring on Red Cross medals. I have also found the Katakana "Su" character as a maker mark on these but it seems to occur less often than the others.

It looks like an attachment to be worn on a key fob. Items like this were often produced commercially and sold through the regimental "foyer" (the PX store).

Of course if you can't make it along to Wynns on the 30th/31st you can always find the REAL stuff on ebay;

http://cgi.ebay.com/VERY-OLD-PRINTED-Copy-...alenotsupported

He needs his head examined !

What time does the exhibition start on Saturday ?

Excellent! Looking forward to that too. Can you give us a "preview" of what we might be able to expect? One thing I would LOVE to see is illustrations/pictures of medal cases, rosettes/lapel pins, documents, the WORKS!!!

OMJAS is a great book but it does seem to be lacking of certain information that leaves newbies like me somewhat scratching our heads (hence, my appearance here with my ignorance and beginner quetions...... )

My intention is to have a chapter on each medal or order and show the obverse and reverse of the item (with variations from different time periods for the orders) as well as all the stuff that is missing from Peterson such as the cases of issue, the certificates (and variations where these exist) as well as related items such as rosettes etc. I am in the process of collating together in one place all the information I have from my various Japanese sources including stuff as varied as the corralation between ranks of nobility and military ranks, the payment levels for Golden Kite pensions over the years, numbers awarded etc.

There is a lot of information to put together and I am still missing some of the certificates so it will take a while to complete.

:cheers:

All of these differences you highlighted, and others that you have not noticed, will be explained in detail in my book on Japanese medals (I have started writing it so watch this space....)

Alex,

This is an excellent medal to have in your collection, especially in the case of issue.

:cheers:

And of course the Sacred Crown, which is always on a bow (apart from the 1st class) since it is only awarded to women. This is the 5th Class.

Lady's 7th class Sacred Treasure. You can see the larger box of issue as well.

Here is a 3rd Class Sacred Treasure on a lady's bow ribbon.

Here is the female version of the Taisho Enthronement Medal, very difficult to find.

My own theory on these is that the manufacturers of the rosettes made the usual eight types, forgetting that the Golden Kite only has seven classes, and some people bought the rosette for the lowest class, ending up with a non existent 8th class Golden Kite style rosette.

AHHH! That explains it! - Are they being made through the national mint? I'm wondering, how does someone acquire so many? (referring to a seller that has lots of them.....) - I'd think one would need to demonstrate somehow that they were an award recipient to get one, maybe not?

I think the rosettes are a private purchase item. I also know at least one dealer in Japan who directly knows the company who supplies them so he basically has a large box full of them, all classes and all orders. They are not scarce and, while nice to have, they should not add significantly to the value of a cased medal.

Thanks for all those pics. and the info!! This is all very helpful for the likes of me.

So if I can summarize correctly, it looks like Meiji (possibly early Taisho?) 8th and 7th class rosettes are of the lapel pin/bow style, then 6th class on up was the round button type. Then a change was made in Showa era (perhaps late Taisho as well, some crossover?) and everything changed to round/button style. The styling differences certainly are interesting.

On the higher levels, how many folds/ruffles are appropriate for each one? Looks like the fourth class has 8 or 10 depending on how it is observed?

Rather than start a new topic here, I'll just add since we are on the subject of rosettes: there seem to be an significant number of them (mostly higher classes, Rising Sun and Sacred Treasure) on Y!JA - but they seem to be listed as "new" - so is there somebody/company out there making knock-offs, and if so, how does one distinguish between those and authentic ones, has anybody seen these first hand??

The rosettes are new because, with the exception of the Golden Kite, all of these orders are still being awarded and hence there is a need for new rosettes for living recipients who want them.

What Tim said on rosettes is correct. The thinner stripes seem to indicate earlier made pieces. Part of the problem in trying to reach conclusions on issues like this is the extent to which Japanese dealers mix & match so you need to get pieces that have good provenance to support any theory like this.

Dieter,

Paul is correct, the 6th class is much rarer than the 7th class, but IMHO, this price is almost double what you can get them for. It's ebay and all depends on the amount of bidders and as always, comes down to "just who has to have it" that makes the price what it is. I have also seen where two bidders bid an extra high bid thinking that no one else will possibly bid that high, just to secure the deal and then find out someone else did the same; the result is an extra high selling price and probably a regretful winner.

Be paitient, there will be another one and I'll bet not that far off in the future.

I paid less than $300. for this one, cased in mint condition and have seen them go for much less than that lately, so don't worry!

Tim

You got a bargain. At the moment in Japan these are fetching about $600 cased and in good condition.

Considering that it is cased that was a reasonable price. The 6th class is a lot harder to find than the 7th class (it is even harder to find than the 5th class). The documents are a lot scarcer than the medals but the medals tend to make a higher price.

That's interesting info. - I don't know a lot about their early history - only, that I dodged their bombs in the early 70's ! ( had a bomb left in a building on my beat, I had to stay there and evacuate the building - all 20 stories of it!! Sir Trevor MacDonald turned up to report for ITV - never even spoke to me !!! I missed a comma on the names of those hung - it was three - not two. According to the write-up all three were hung together - in front of the prison. Imagine the crowds.

In Irish Republican history they are called the Manchester Martyrs. They have been eulogised in song and story ever since. Their names were William O'Mera Allen, Michael Larkin and Michael O'Brien. The most popular song about them is called "God save Ireland" and starts off "High upon the gallows tree, swung the noble hearted three, by the vengeful tyrants stricken in their bloom." You can probably guess that it is not exactly a balanced account of what happened !

Paul,

Yes it is the single star and dots that I found inconsistent with a 2e medal. The seller has a $2000.00 USD reserve set it. Do you think this is in the ballpark for a 2e LoH in this condition?

Garth

I paid just under $600 equivalent for a 4th Class 2nd Empire version in gold about 3 years ago so I think his reserve is too high. If it was a 1st Empire version then it would be worth about this (with the original ribbon) but the 1st Empire orders do not have eagles in the crown.

I would say this is a Second Empire piece. The use of eagles in the crown and the titles on the obverse are consistent with 2nd Empire and I have seen this type of reverse as well (I presume it is the single star and dots that you consider unusual ?).