Paul L Murphy

This bar is a complete fabrication. Japanese medals were worn in the order of award, sometimes the military wore all war medals in front of commemorative medals but that was not usual. They would then wear foreign medals and then Red Cross award. Foreign orders were actually worn in front of Japanese medals and Japanese orders came before everything.

The reason you will see the Sacred Treasure in front of the Rising Sun sometimes is because a higher grade of Sacred Treasure had precedence over a lower grade of Rising Sun. If both were the same grade then the Rising Sun came first. The military sometimes put the Golden Kite in front of everything even if it was a lower grade, which was actually incorrect.

This bar could have been cobbled together as a souvenier during the occupation of Japan so it would have been untouched for 50 years, but it is still an impossibility.

As a follow-up, I should clarify one point. According to the Japanese books I have read, commemorative and war medals cannot be re-issued. But these were post-WW2 books, so perhaps there was a pre-war system of re-issuing those medals if they were lost or stolen.

Cheers, Rich

I am not aware of any system whereby commemorative or war medals were reissued, and certainly not where certs were reissued. The high number here is very curious indeed since it is completely out of sync with the other numbers I have so far. Time to put my thinking cap on !!

Thanks, Paul. I'll have to get access to the Imperial edicts, too. I think they may be online somewhere.

The two roll numbers are 193132 and 54877.

Cheers, Rich

Rich,

Are you sure about the first number ? It is a lot higher than the numbers of the Taisho 9 certificates that I have sighted. The number 54877 makes perfect sense since this is a lot lower than the numbers I have seen to date.

Paul

I think Peterson got his dates wrong. The edict should predate the award of the medals. The certs I have come across were all Taisho 9. Do you have the serial numbers of these two certs from Taisho 8 so I can add them to my database? The number will be in the text on the left side of the cert.

Nice, never seen one with the 大 mark on it before.

I have had a number of them. They turn up in Kansai flea markets a lot with this particular maker mark so that could indicate a manufacturer in that area.

Almost all Japanese fakes are very easy to spot once you have seen a real example of the order or medal in question. There are some decent fakes of the high end Golden Kite, until you look closely and the enamel work is not near that of the originals. Some of the fakes of the military qualification badges and the rank markings faked by Nakata are very good indeed but for medals and orders you are pretty safe (so far).

:cheers:

How did any of these guys manage to stand up with the weight of all that metal ! ! !

Hi!

When she wears a kimono, the Japanese woman is a string of the decorations to wind up on an obi to bind the waist of the kimono with more.

It is Japanese traditional clothes from the times of the samurai!

Obime are badges worn on the obi, the belt worn on a traditional kimono. The Patriotic Women's Association have a particularly nice set of these badges, all of which are scarce or rare. The quality of manufacture tends to be pretty high with these.

Oh yeah, now I remember, I DID have one. And it sold on eBay for cheap. I remember thinking it was going to sell for a good price because it was marked and it sold for less than one with no mark. You win some, you lose some... I'm sure it's the only Golden Kite I've ever seen that was marked. They must be quite rare, because I've had several pass through my hands...

I have seen a number of 6th and 7th class Golden Kite's with the m mintmark but I have never seen any other mark on them. Also I do not recall seeing it on anything higher than a 6th class.

I would certainly welcome all the information that people can contribute but being of conservative bent I would not want to reach conclusions unless we have enough source data to really bottom out the issues. With Japanese marks that will be difficult given the lack (so far) of source data.

:cheers:

Thanks John,

This is good information and hope Paul includes a section on hallmarks in his forthcoming book.

Dick

Dont worry, I will. However it is problematic since there is a lot of views that the marks represent different makers but nobody seems to have the underlying information or proof in this regard.

Yep, that's the katakana "HI" (pronounced "he") mark. And on the back of some of the Red Cross knobs you'll find "I" イ, "SU" ス, "KA" カ and more I'm sure. The 4th class sacred treasure I'm selling now has the "BI" 美 kanji on the back. I simply don't have the free time to research this... Someone knows though. Some old cat that's been at the Japan Mint for 50+ years... Someone like that must know.

Peterson refers to these as makers marks, however I suspect some of them might be control marks within the Mint. I will try to unravel this as part of the work I intend doing for my next book which will be on Japanese awards and medals. However part of the problem is that most of the records were destroyed in the bombing during WWII.

Here are some items in my collection with a polce headgear connection. Not in the same league as the piece you displayed but interesting nonetheless. The first is an early RUC constable's peaked cap. This is from the 1960s when the uniform was still a dark blue/black colour.

Next up an Inspector's cap from the 1980s. This is the more familiar dark green uniform.

And finally a really nice RUC Superintendant's peaked cap, also from the 1980s.

Sorry, this is an old posting that got "reactivated" by the reply to it. I will list some more items soon in the for sale section but most of my selling at the moment is in ebay under the name plmurphy

:cheers:

Kyle,

In short, the colour and the characters go together; ie the sen sho is always gilt and the ko sho is always silver. if it appears gold and has ko sho on the back then it is either due to tarnish/toning of the silver or else it has been tampered with. if you post a picture of the item in question I can give a more detailed opinion.

Regards,

Paul

I have 1054 Thomas Walsh which is a medal with Comhrac bar that came from the family and is named in lower case with initial capitals.

Brings back fond memories. The various stations on the circle line have the best examples of Soviet art in the metro. Some of it should be in a museum. I particularly liked the bronze statues in Tsverskaya (I think it was), which I passed every time I took the train from my apartment at Novokuznetskaya to go and see the Bolshoi Theatre.

Getting all nostalgic for Moscow again ..........

:cheers:

John,

He certainly likes his bling !

Are you able to get any close shots of the individual items he is wearing or email me a high res picture and I will see if I can identify any of them.

Cheers,

Paul

Hi folks,

An old acquaintance of mine won the Silver Cross of the Spanish Naval Order of Merit a number of years ago and he is looking for a miniature of this to mount on his miniature bar. Is there anyone located in Spain who would be able to get one of these for me ? If possible I would also like to get a 6 inch length of the full sized ribbon and the miniature ribbon.

Thanks in advance.

Paul

Almost all military records were destroyed in the fire bombing of Tokyo in WWII. Of those that remain, the authorities here will not release information unless you can prove you are the next of kin of the person concerned. If it is an officer who made it to General or Admiral there are published books in Japanese that show what they did after reaching that rank. In addition, the roll of all naval officers has been published but the amount of information is mixed, and after the Taisho era there is little information held. The easiest is if you have other documents with the certificates which will give you a unit, you can then research the unit rather than the individual.

Having said all that, they are still a lovely item and from time to time you can uncover some very interesting groups.

Regards,

Paul

Hi, I'm new here and not sure if I'm posting this in the right place... I can translate that for you... It reads Kuwata Jotohei (Lance Corporal Kuwata). Kuwata is the family name, his given name isn't there. Hope that helps.

OOps ! I read it from left to right, it should have been from right to left. :speechless:

Basically these are people's names. No doubt the names of his comrades who wrote on the flag. It is upside down by the way, you can tell this since the kanji on the red circle are upside down in the picture.

Regards,

Paul

Rob,

I sent you an email. His family name is Ueda but I cannot pronounce his given name.

Cheers,

Paul

Superb group. Can you post the documents one by one so we can have a good read. Which unit was he in ?

:jumping:

The man deserved his medal, there is no question about that.

Could this be a re-enactment or parade as part of the 50th anniversary celebrations in 1966 ?