Paul L Murphy

Everything in Pakistan, including Pakistan, was part of India until 1947.

Compared to what I see in India, I am surprised (= shocked) at how crude these Pakistani badges are. And I know they can make better. Are these real?

The badges shown here so far are cast badges that are sold via military tailor shops to the recipients. The badges I will list once I get back to London are mainly die struck so they are much better quality. I lived in Lahore in the mid 90's which is when I got them. The variation in quality among different (genuine) badges is very much a factor on how much a soldier or officer wanted to pay for an additional item. I am not certain regarding the quality of issued items but I do not think it was particularly high.

Why do we see soldiers wearing this decoration?

They sometimes get it if they have contributed a work of military literature. It is quite a kudos for them to have it since it is not a normal military decoration.

I have a whole bunch of stuff that I can post after Christmas. Feel free to remind me since I am liable to forget in all the festive cheer.

how did you get a 1st class??? there probably one of the rarest awards ever made and has been said have never been awarded!!!!!!

The 1st class has never been awarded and most likely never will. Personally I think the powers that be at the time of the award to Browne messed it up by awarding a 2nd class since they effectively created a benchmark which made a future award of a 1st class impossible. How much braver can you be than to willingly draw fire onto your own position and hold off an attack (giving your life in the process) in order to save a comrade. It should also be pointed out that Trooper Browne was only about 18 at the time of his deed.

OK, finally back in London after visiting the Land of the Rising Yen. The certificate here was awarded on 1st April 1906 (Meiji 39) and it is for a 6th class Order of the Rising Sun. I would need to dig out my kanji dictionaries to work out the name of the recipient but what is interesting is that his name is not preceeded by any indications of rank or office. The 1st April 1906 was the date when the mass of awards were given out for the Russo Japanese War.

The fact that he has no titles or previous awards indicated, as well as no official ranks or job titles, suggests that this is his first medal and he may be a member of the Japanese Red Cross. Even schoolteachers had their job mentioned on the certificate, the only people I have come across so far from the Meiji period with no job title is Red Cross volunteers.

A nice certificate but unfortunately impossible to research on its own.

Hi Ulsterman,

No First Class, of this type, were ever awarded - this example one of ony a few in existence.

The only First Class (design variation) ever awarded was to a Trooper Anthony Browne in the UN Congo Mission.

A small patrol of Irish soldiers under Lt Kevin Gleeson had set out to examine a damaged bridge near Niemba when they were attacked by 200 warriors. Gleeson was forced to order his men to open fire as they got to a small hill, but they were quickly overrun, killing about two dozen of their attackers. Some of the soldiers managed to scatter into the bush, and one of them, Trooper Anthony Browne, won Ireland's highest military award for bravery that day, the Military Medal for Gallantry.Browne had a chance of escaping but he fired his sub-machinegun at a group of Balubas attacking Pte Tom Kenny, who was one of two survivors of the 11-man patrol.Trooper Browne's body was recovered in 1962 in a special Irish Army operation.

Regards - An Ceallach

Trooper Browne's award was actually a Second Class, not a First Class. The First Class has never been awarded and most likely never will since if they could not give it to Browne (or some of the other 2nd class recipients like Commandant Michael Nestor for example) it is difficult to see how anyone could ever get it. I believe Browne's medal is still with the family despite the efforts of a mutual acquaintance of ours to persuade them to sell it.

Paul

Please don't parallel the Foreign Legion and the Bataillons d'Afrique.

They have NOTHING IN COMMON. Except possibly in the fuzzy mind of the missinformed .... and the fact that both types of military units served in North Africa.

The Foreign Legion has always been a crack unit in the French Armed Forces. Its members are all volunteers, from any nationality except Frenchmen, serving France on a contract basis. They are the successors of the Scot, Irish, Swiss, German, Italian, Hungarian, Croatian and Swedish regiments who served France from the XVth to mid-XIXth centuries.

The Bataillons d'infanterie l?g?re d'Afrique were a special unit in the French Forces, where serious offenders were sentenced to serve. No one ever volunteered.

If you are interested in military history and medals, the Foreign Legion certainly is the right choice.

Regards

Veteran

Veteran,

Do not worry, I would never mix the two. I know enough about French military history and Legion history to know the difference. Hence my continuing preference for Legion related documents rather than Bat d'Af. If I had to be bailed out of a tight spot I know which unit I would prefer to be doing the bailing.

Best regards,

Paul

At the risk of jinxing my parcel...

Would anyone find the

1er Bataillon d' infanterie l?g?re d' Afrique

interesting :-))))

Definitely a very tough and nasty bunch of individuals but I will stick with my Legion preferences.

Hi guys,

I just got this one and would love to hear some toughts from Japanise award collectors. Like I understand it can be 5th or 4th class. Am I right? Also what would be the period when this piece was made and how many Order of Golden Kite's 4th and 5th classes were awarded in total? Oh, many questions but I am just doing my first steps on this field as well.

This is a 5th class order, the 4th class had all the silver parts gilded including the reverse. Have a look at my pinned article on dating Golden Kites to fix the date on this one. It is well worn and has seen better days. It is not possible to accurately say the number awarded of the 4th or 5th class, however the 5th class is possibly more common than the 6th class. They certainly turn up more often even though they are a lot more expensive.

Regards,

Paul

Hi,

thanks for enlightening me. Campaign Medals are not my forte I must admit.

I was aware that the senior French Para regiments had been raised that early, but I was only aware of the Foreign Legion's stand at Bir-Hakeim.

Toujours en pointe!

Have a nice weekend!

Mike [WOULD-BE Legionnaire]

The main Legion unit involved in Bir Hakeim was the 13 DBLE. The Legion paratroop units were not formed until after that.

I already have my dream Medaille Coloniale docs. One is in a group to the III/3 REI for Indochina (recipient served at Dien Bien Phu), the others are to members of the BEP who served at Dien Bien Phu. Of these, one got two Croix de Guerre (both bronze stars) while the second one got a Croix de Guerre with silver star since he was one of the volunteers who jumped in near the end as reinforcements despite not having para training. All are with the Extreme Orient bar.

Apart from these, it would be to get one to the Heavy Mortar Company of the Legion Paras or else to a BEP member who took part in the action on RC4 when they were wiped out.

If I may draw on your expertise, folks - there are a couple of Black & Tan medals on the Liverpool Medals site (they are kind enough to allow me to use their pictures on my site) - could you take a look and advise if they are real or fakes? I don't want to display fake medals if I can avoid it!

http://www.liverpoolmedals.com/products-ca....html?ctid=2320 refers....

Megan,

From the photos these appear to be original.

Regards,

Paul

I am out of London for a few days so i will do a full translation when i get back. It is a nice Meiji era cert to a civilian.

If you post a good photo of it here I will translate it for you.

Regards,

Paul

Could it be GLOUC R ?? If so then it is the Gloucestershire Regiment.

This badge was introduced after 1990, so the topic belongs to the non-communist era section.

Many thanks for the information. If someone with the relevant powers could move this to the correct section it would be great.

How many of these are handed out every year ? It is a very well made badge, nice to see quality standards retained.

This is a recent addition to my collection. It has no maker mark but is numbered 601 on the reverse. The academy is located in Bucharest but can anyway advise the period when this badge was used. Also how common/scarce are these ?

http://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2008/post-1487-1226703982.jpghttp://gmic.co.uk/uploads/monthly_11_2008/post-1487-1226704004.jpg

It is for the 32nd Artillery Regiment in the late 1940s/early 1950s.

Yippee

All comes to he who waits !

GRA,

Thank you again for your information and link and as for Calvary, you mean like this Drago / G1627?

This is the unit badge of the 1st Spahis Regiment.

As i understund the main quastion in this group is "everyday wear" ribbon bar (see pic)? No quastions to the main ribbon bar?

Sorry but documents will post only after some time - because i have some reparations in my flat and live know in anouther. But after it will be finished will post documents.....

I just had another look at this and it is definitely wrong. You have it reversed in the photo so you need to look at it upside down. If you do this you see that the Taisho Enthronement Medal ribbon is before the 1904-05 Medal. This is totally incorrect.

With regard to the full medal bar, I would also have concerns about the different levels of wear on the ribbons. Japanese dealers are terrible for mix-and-match, they get a set of documents and then add the appropriate medals to make the "set". I suspect this is what has happened here. The good news is that the orders do all appear to be from the Meiji era, which is correct. I have seen sets made up which were supposed to be Meiji but used Showa era orders.

I hope you will post the documents once the "remont" is finished at home.

Best regards,

Paul

The undress ribbon bar is not waht you usually expect to see. These normally have a different type of reverse and the ribbons are pushed through and held in place with small metal tabs, not sewn on as here. Also it is unusual to see a bar with two pins and an appearance of having been welded together at some stage.

I would love to see the documents that you have since these are normally fascinating and tell the real story behind the group.

The photo appears to have been taken between 1920 and 1928 since he has the war medals but not the Showa Enthronement Medal.

I have been keeping a record of certificate numbers which I encounter for Japanese medals since the medal rolls were sequential. So far the highest number Victory Medal certificate I have encountered is 99,533.

For the 1914-15 War Medal the highest certificate I have seen so far was 136,512 and for thw 1914-20 War Medal it is 310,037. I suspect that the Victory Medal was only given to those who got the earlier 1914-15 medal and not the 1914-20, which was mainly for the Siberian Expedition in 1919-20. This is only a personal view and I have no evidence to support it (yet).

Among the items I collect are French Foreign Legion insignia and Spahis unit insignia.

:cheers:

Many thanks

:cheers: