realitycheck

I'm sure the Geneva Convention had something to say about elephant guns, though probably not by that term. Certainly doesn't mean they weren't used though. Shot guns, definitely frowned on, were very efficient trench fighting weapons. A lot of it probably came down to what the business boys call a cost-benefit analysis: did the extra efficiency outweigh the extra weight and, probably more importantly, were the intended victims likely to do something nasty and permanent to the owner of such a weapon if captured?

I believe, for example, that German WWI pioneer units ground the saw backs off their bayonets because being captured carrying one was a very good way to get shot by irate Tommies, who regarded them as cruel and unusual. [ As if getting perforated with a non-sawback bayonet were going to be any better!]

However, as Mervyn, one of the First War mavens will undoubtedly have an answer or suggest a source for one, as well as correcting me if I'm wrong!

BTW, welcome aboard!

Peter

thank you sir for your wekcome

So now we have an answer.

Thanks Ed.

Regards

Brian

thank you gents very much for your help and hospitality. When I learned this place was for mad dogs and Englishmen, I didn't know what would happen ;-)

The Charge of the Light Brigade by Tennyson.

As i'm an American,i'm not privy to the more personal histories of the British army in verse, but I do know this one.All know this one.

The Charge of the Light Brigade

Half a league,half a league,

Half a league onward,

All In the Valley of Death

Rode the six hundred

"Forward the Light Brigade!"

"Charge for the guns!"

Into the valley of death

Rode the six hundred

"Forward the Light Brigade!"

Was there a man dismay'd?

Not tho'the soldier knew

Someone had blunder'd:

Theirs not to make reply,

Theirs not to reason why

Theirs but to do and die:

Into the valley of death

Rode the six hundred

Cannon to the right of them,

Cannon to the right of the them

Cannon in front of them

Volly'd and thunder'd

Storm'd at with shot and shell,

Boldly they rode an well,

Into the jaws of death,

Into the mouth of Hell,

Rode the six hundred

Flash'd all their sabres bare

Flash'd as they turned in air,

Charging an army,while

All the world wonder'd:

Plunged in the battery smoke

Right thro' the line they broke:

Cossack and Russian

Reeled from the Sabre stroke

Shatter'd and sunder'd

Then they rode back,but not

Not the six hundred

Cannon to the right of them,

Cannon to the left of them,

Cannon behind them

Volley'd and thunder'd

Storm'd at with shot and shell

While horse and hero fell

They that had fought so well

Came thro' the jaws of death

Back from the mouth of Hell

All that was left of them,

Left of six hundred

When can their glory fade?

O the wild charge they made!

All the world womdered

Honor the charge they made,

Honor the Ligh Brigade,

Noble six hundred

Alfred Lord Tennyson

Realitycheck - welcome to GMIC. I will have to leave this to one of the WW1 experts - and, it may be worth posting the

question also on the weapons section. Whatever the answer, I'm sure our elephants were very pleased to see them go !

I have a reprinted book from the daily score of Selous - the famous big game hunter. The sheer slaughter of so many

animals was quite inexcusable - and in many cases has made species vulnerable. Mervyn

Thank you for your welcome sir,i am glad to be here.

Realitycheck - I welcomed you to GMIC on your other post. Yes, we are talking of the same person. He was in command during the

2nd Afghan War - 1879-1881 and Kandahar was a distant outpost from the main army. The Royal Fusiliers were part of the garrison.

In order to relieve them, Roberts formed a special fast moving force and they marched to just ouutside of Kandahar. The Afghans

attacked his Force and the Garrison came-out and caught them in between. The garrison received the Kandahar Bar and the men who

forced-march received in addition the Kabul to Kandahar Star. Roberts was created an Earl and became the Commander in Chief during

the Boer War. People were genuinly fond of him and he was known as "Our Bobs" by nearly everyone.

Lt. General Chelmsford was a different case altogether. He came from a very prominent family - and eventually was made the Viceroy of India.

He did not take part in the Boer War - however, he was the commanding General during the Anglo-Zulu War of 1879.

The British had been fighting the 9th Kaffrarian War in the Eastern Cape in 1877/8 and he had both Battalions of the 24th Regiment of Foot.

Additionally, he was supported by Artillery and his personal bodyguard was a Squadron of the 1st. King's Dragoon Guards.

Natal was under permanent threat from the large forces of the Zulu King and it was thought with Chelmsford's troops + local forces and native

infantry, that it was the ideal time to bring King Cetywayo under control. We used an old and well tried method - we demanded that a

British Resident be appointed - he would be responsible for all matters involving Zulus - apart from local issues.

We were so determined to force this, that the ultimatum sent to the King did not allow time for a reply - and we declared war in January 1879.

I will not go into the short period of the War - it is well covered in our posts - however, we won and the King was sent into exile. From

the point of view of Chelmsford , he knew that London was not happy with him for losing at Isandlawana - it was the largest casualty level

for any war fought during this colonial period. He was therefore, expecting to be recalled and pushed his men hard to have everthing

settled before General Sir Garnet Wolseley was sent to replace him. They were far from friends and Wolseley was a 'pushy' man.

The general in the famous Gilbert and Sullivan comic opera - "The Pirates of Penzance" - "I am the very model of a modern major-general"

was a skit on him.

Chelmsford returned to the UK and with his connections was made the Viceroy of India - the highest colonial position.

I hope this helps you a little. Mervyn

Realithcheck

Yes, same fellow: "Field Marshal Frederick Sleigh Roberts, 1st Earl Roberts VC KG KP GCB OM GCSI GCIE VD PC (30 September 1832 – 14 November 1914) was a British soldier who was one of the most successful commanders of the 19th century. He served in the Indian rebellion, the Expedition to Abyssinia and the Second Anglo-Afghan War before leading British Forces to success in the Second Boer War. He also became the last Commander-in-Chief of the Forces before the post was abolished in 1904." [Wikipedia]

He was also the model for W.S. Gilberts' "Modern Major General" from the "Pirates of Penzance". A great warrior as well as a soldier, but with the flaws all of us have. There's quite a nice little essay on him by the Kipling Society, giving Kipling - who knew him personally - assessment of him as a general and prehaps explaining why 'Bobs' was so beloved of the common soldier. It's here: http://www.kipling.org.uk/rg_lordroberts_moore.htm

OK so it was Chelmsford troops at Islanhwana and Gariep River and Little hand Hill? And it was all the better when Cetawayo was sent to St.Helena,where Napaleon was exiled also,yes?

Isnt it true that the Earl Roberts lost a son in the Boer fighting? Who was in command before the Earl Roberts took over that command? thank you for your posts.

• I Just want to thank you all for responding to my post, its always great to communicate with people from the homeland,and I never miss a chance to do so. For God,for St.George,and for England! Thanks for your responses. As long as there are people alive that remember this stuff here on this forum,there is hope for civilization. I look forward to learning much more.Thank you gentleman.

Was the Earl Roberts that was involved in the Boer War the same Roberts who made the famous forced march to relieve Kandahar?

What was the Baron Chelmsfords role in the Boer war?Who did he replace or get replaced by?

thank you for looking

During the Great war, I understand that some large bore rifles were taken from the African colonies to be used in the trenches to shoot through German steel. I was wondering if anyone knew what these rifles were? 8 bores? 470 Nitros? Rigbys?