E Williams

Thanks Alex....I have some cleaning emulsion coming for the surface handling oils. If it doesn't help, I'll run a copy of yours off and frame that.

Chris....there is not a thing on the back, rough and dirty with age but totally blank. There isn't one shoulder board good enough to determine the unit either.

Ed

1st and 2nd Squadrons were transferred to the 115th Div in 1915. Both the 111th and 115th Divisions were formed in 1915.

I agree with Jonas, that being the 5th squadron being a support squadron for the regt, sorta like Headquarters Company being the support for an Inf Regt/Bn or Headquarters Battery for artillery.

The entire Regt was assigned to the 29th Div at the outbreak, 1914 and 1915. Sometime in 1915 the Regt was broken up and 3rd and 4th Squadrons were assigned to the 111th Inf Div. At that time the 5th Sqd was probably disbanded or was back in Mulhausen, there home base.

If I come across anything else, I posted it.

Ed

Was reading the citations for 2 bronze stars from WW2 on another forum. Both without the V so with an oakleaf on the ribbon.

If you read the citations it makes you wonder what you had to do to get a V added in that time?!

http://www.usmilitariaforum.com/forums/index.php?/topic/190656-fury-2nd-armored-divison-medal-grouping-with-patch-citation/

Erik, I read those citations and IMO, the commander who signed off and sent the citation FWD didn't know completely about how the BS could be awarded. Valor, Achievement or Service...I know of no time is was awarded for "Heroic Achievement". Achievement would be for actions involving planning and successful execution of an military operation, for example. Also remember, a recommendation can be shot down to a lower level by higher approving authority. It could be also a higher authority screw up. The Arcom was also in affect and he could have been awarded that with a V device. Regardless, it was a travesty for the BS not to be awarded without a V device the first time and the OLC would have designated a second award for valor.

I witness a few travesties and experienced a couple personally and it depended a lot on who recommended the award, the command general and the whole chain of command on who received what and there were even directives that certain ranks would not receive this and that award. Even though we don't have aristocracy in our military, there was always a class difference.

Thanks for all the input!

The ww2 BSM most often did not have the V device as mentioned above, right?

Regards, Erik

That's correct Erik. A BS could be awarded for Valor, Service or Achievement during and in a war. If awarded for Valor, a 'V' device was added to the ribbon, for service/achievement, no device or in the case, an oakleaf for each additional award up to the fourth award, ribbon always counts as 1st award. With the award of five, it's a silver device. Oakleaf for individual awards, stars for campaigns.

On your rack, the CIB is awarded to infantrymen and to receive the CIB, you must have experience ground combat. Officers can be awarded the CIB from colonel on down.

I closed down for the night and hit the bed but this rack wouldn't go away.

I knew no enlisted or Noncom who had an embroidered rack, maybe an odd E-8 now and then but only officers could afford them and replace them everytime they received a new award or an additional award or maybe a Noncom retiree might have that final rack made for going home. BUT........look at the background cloth they were embroidered on, it doesn't look like officer gabardine but more for an enlisted wool Korean War Ike jacket. Khakis were not in yet and basically the Class A uniforms of the Korean War were the same as WWII both for EM and Officer. The field/CBT uniforms changed bigtime.

Father Rick will hear your confessions in the Lounge

I was once asked by two 1st LTs, if they wrote up the recommendations, would I consider going to OCS and I said....and miss all the fun????

Interesting twist...

That would explain his puny onetime GCM although I didn't make it to Korea, almost did, I'm sure he R&R'd in Japan and those Geisha gals got me into all kinds of positions trouble.

Draw down after every war was the hardest to make rank and after WWII, Korea and Nam there was a lot of occifer RIFs. Can't see him going into the Occifer ranks after WWII unless he was an Occifer in WWII and then RIFed down to enlisted for Korea.

The National Defense Ribbon was designated by executive order in Apr 1953, the war ended (truce) in July 53. His service could have ended before then. I say he served in WWII and either got out and came back in as prior service for Korea or stayed in till Korea. If we knew if his second Purple Heart was awarded in Korea, it could have been a medical discharge. There are so many possibilities but I still say he was a Noncom.

I think he is suggesting that he started WW2 as enlisted and somewhere along the line received a commission since with the service reflected in this bar, he should have more than one GCM. Officers are authorized to wear the GCM they earned as prior enlisted.

True, prior enlisted but I see no where it can tell if enlisted or occifer. Remember, one has to be in three years to receive one if you've been a good boy. I learned soon into what was to come, a Good Conduct Medal wasn't awarded because you were a good boy, it was awarded because you never got caught. It donates two purple hearts and a CIB, there is no valour awards, the rest are service/achievement and service/campaign ribbons

Officers are not awarded GCM, strictly enlisted.

Can not determine what unit by awards, only by unit patch, right or left side, right for prior combat.

I thought he reminded me of another wannabe hero..................

Actually, I think you have one too many............................

CRAP!!! Pure 100% CRAP!!!!!!!!!!!! He wears a SF beret with 5th Group flash and SF crest but he wears no arrowhead patch. The patch he does have on his left sleeve is a fabricated in-country patch that has no existence in the US Army supply system. He's a true blue wannabe. For Christ's sake!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ribbons are way wrong....before the internet was created by Al Gore , we called this kind of idiot a "PX/BX soldier" and I'd be more than happy telling that to his face.

I have some info about the Div but nothing directly about the Regt. If you have , Histories of Two Hundred and Fifty-One Divisions of the German Imperial Army, you have that info also.

is indeed

Chris.....I know where there is a 1915 DWM Luger unit marked to the same MGK. I almost bought it. It's still for sale. It was rendered surplus after the war under the Armistice rules and it was exported the the US, it has 'Germany' stamped on the left slide frame.

so was doing a clean out of books and found some docs that i hadnt seen in a while!one of them was this ek doc that i got about 10 years ago!its not really may thing any more and well i want to sell it to fund my british collection(and or a new pc!!) so was wondering how much would a doc like this go for? i hate these type of threads but i havent been able to find any for sale to get a idea of the value on these!so any help would be great!!thanks!!!

Do I read that correctly that cert is for 3 MGK 88 Res Inf Regt?

Official...it has a new home.

It has officially arrived at it's new home and after proper preparation, it will be nicely framed. Will post a photo after it's on that wall...................

Nice trade Steve....anything else in the attic? ;)

I like this thread.................nice.

A couple of EKI and a few wound badges in black and a few more EKII but can't read any unit identification.

Nice...I really like the Saxon example. I recently found a field grey model 1910 but it was wayyyyyyyyyy out of my price allowance.

Closeups of my Alexander III. Perhaps someone can decipher the name above the 4th Squadron stamp, if it is a name.

ThanksIMG_0003-4_edited-1.jpgIMG_0003-5_edited-1.jpgIMG_0005-3_edited-1.jpgIMG_0004-3_edited-1.jpg

Being retired, bored and the house void of any of my many lady friends that stop by, I once again surfed the net and BINGO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Original framed print

Bob, Just received a reply from Justin, he said he could find out more when he returns home (East Tenn). They are in Flagstaff at the moment, after there, they head home.

Thanks Ed

No rush - I can easily be reached through a PM here on GMIC and the lighter is back to the box in the bottom of the drawer where it was safely lying. With 44 years past it, I'm sure a little bit more patience won't be an issue.

Fingers crossed that somehow a connection will be possible and the lighter can go back to it's rightful owner again.

Bob, I'll pass the info on..................Justin and wife are on vacation in NM at the moment, so it might take awhile.

Ed

Thanks - would appreciate if he could get me into contact with somebody at Westpoint who could provide my contact details to W.E. Cates (if possible).

I've been posting on various fora (but suspect odds are slim there) and emails (e.g. to Westpoint) are bouncing or I'm seeing page after page of "we are closed due to government shutdown".

I understand the needs for data privacy so would be more than willing to provide my contact details to be forwarded to 1stLt or his family.

Thanks,

Bob