Douglas 5

Yes ... nice ones Ben .

Douglas

Makers of some of these post war fakes go to a lot of effort to 'age' their product !

Quality is still far off .

In case of Juncker - they used many different cores and most likely for that reason they did not - pre-file - the frames .... not knowing what core would go in  .... some fit nicely - some fit barely and some fit badly !

Douglas 

Put together with pieces that are not war time known components . Still bad .

A corner riding up/sitting on the swastika can be found on war time made crosses .

Douglas

Not a Spanish made EK2 . The frame seam is split in a few places .

Douglas

Don't give it much chance of it being original .

Douglas

Kasle reminded me of another I have .

Less common being a ' Damenschleife ' . -should count as a single mount .

Douglas

The only single I have .

Douglas

Since the original post I was wondering if any more Gablonz identifying features have come to light in the mean time /

Douglas

Some times one gets lucky and finds a marked one . I have a one marked F&B .

Cheers, Douglas

Nice pick up Tom .

Is the ribbon eagle marked by any chance ?

Douglas

Nice W&L cross .

Douglas

Excellant.... thank very much .

Yours shows nicely the 2nd method applicator applied frosting and the fine bonepartical laced paint . The core on yours dryed in the facing up postion . I would think the first stage of streamlining and speeding up the finishing process do to increased demand . The one I have is still done the slow way .... hand brush applied frosting and the core turn upside down to dry . With help of gravity this creates a nice 'domed' Swastika as the paint dries . Nicely to see on the paint chip ! At the same time this exsposes the bone particles left behind in the arm cutouts .

Amazing how much pictures can tell and show us !!

Regards Douglas

Morning Barzda :

Nice artistic pictures that show the frosting method nicely , but unfornatly the one corner beading I am interested in is obscured by glare and the low angle . Just used the first example I came across - to show what I am looking for . A high pixel resolution is best . This example a bit blurry do to the magnification .

Regards, Douglas

And as far as the ribbon goes is fine .... this happens do to exsposure to sun light . Looks like an original- possible dull orange ribbon -fading to this brown , which is the leftover other pigmentation in the color .

Douglas

Hi Barzda :

Real nice hand-frosted (2nd type) early harder to find first production coin-silver frame Juncker ....with the first core used - which is a W&L core and coresponds to the 7 on the working chart .

I would be interested in a closeup picture of the top right - inside corner .

Regards, Douglas

Nice UB variant : one without the split bead it seams and Ni-aloy frame . Sizes do vary a bit ..... myself still looking for a full size UB , happen to stumble onto a reduzed size first .

Douglas

Late getting back : Thank you all !

Douglas

Last picture from Luud as well : to demonstrate my explanation .

Both types side by side : close but still minor pin anchor differences as well .

Picture worth a thousand words : Juncker on top and W&L below .

I was not able to get ahold of Luud befor posting . Hope this is alright .

Interpetation of his pictures are mine only .

Regards, Douglas

Juncker catch is a bit thicker .

Had to borrow the top picture from Luud for my comparison . My W&L 100 below it .

Juncker ; even sided - side taper ending up in a flat - pin tip ! Rotating center a bit wider than W&L .

W&L : abrupt ending pin tip , no taper .

Hi Jeff ;

You waited long for an answer on this and now you got two ; There is still no unanimous conclusion on these , I have been working months on these .

You will get 2 answers ; one you got from Ben ... it being a Juncker .

How ever I say it is a W&L = Wa'chter & Lange , early EK1 1940 with the early Tombac core .

Why a W&L : no bead flaws , die inward pointing beading has in the low angle corner 'webbing' , the short '1' in the date ,and no cross hatching on the 4 inside bead corners. The pin needle is a different shape. W&L used the round catch first but changed soon over to the flat wire catch during the use of the tombac core . I have the exact same cross but only with the flat catch !

Regards , Douglas

first picture shows the W&L pin taper . using your cross ;

Hi Gents;

A follow up to something started in 2005 .

Since this was first posted , has any more info turned up ?

Are there or does some one have pictures of a cross that had been made - using this Gablonzer Method ?? The picture I assume is Coastie's -unburnished- 26 .

Looked though many forums and found absolutely nothing . A small write up is all some one found, very general only .

Are they too difficult to identify from normal EK's ? Any traces of the coil wire ?

As mentioned - a small company would not go to all that trouble and cost .

Gorden W- does mention here that S&L did not bother with this process ? How is this known ?

How about some of the other large manufacturers: K&Q , Juncker , W&L, Deumer , BH Meyers, Zimmermann , or Hanauer Co-op etc .....

Coastie has a EK1 26 that shows these traits , that could identify one maker .

And the question too : was this ' cost saving ' method intended only for EK's , as there are many other awards ?

It sounds like some of these larger companies may have run a small batch at the Gablonzer Plant , ... all most like test driving a car before buying it !

Or : are we still to date looking at a "non collectible minor variation" , a manufacturing attempt that did not take off , ...

..... some what like VHS and BETA video recorders !

Regards , Douglas

Nice late periode L59 . later pieces usually have no 'extra' marks .

Do you have a closeup shot of that dot type .

Douglas

L59 Back , multiple markings , first Pin Set .

L59 Pin Back : First Production.

Front