Hugh

Hello Hugh,

You told me that the ribbon colours of the 1st and 2nd classes of the 'Precious and Brilliant Golden Grain' and Golden Grain' Orders are as following :

The sash(ribbon) of the Order of the Precious and Brilliant Golden Grain:

1st Class: red with yellow border;

2nd Class: red with blue border.

The sash(ribbon) of the Order of the Golden Grain:

1st Class: yellow with red border;

2nd Class: yellow with white border.

(Unquote)

Dear Lilo,

I'm flattered (but a little embarrassed) that you think I am so knowledgeable. I think you may have confused with Richard LaTondere, who gave a very good writeup in an earlier post. I suggest that he is better qualified to respond. I'm still waiting for a response from the Armed Forces museum in Taipei to the more limited question in your very first post, but nothing yet.

Just as a matter of interest, i have in my collection a Golden Grain 3rd class, which corresponds exactly with the description in Richard's post.

Best,

Hugh

Rather complex . . . but thanks for asking . . . .

Until 1923, they were to have been worn around the neck. By then, two problems had coalesced:

-- The wearing of miniature medals had become common in India. Where did these awards fit and where should they be worn? (And the mint had begun selling miniatures and showing a tidy profit from doing that.)

-- The ribbons had been made in China. With the rising tide of the Chinese Civil War, the availability of ribbons had become a problem and ribbons had become hard to procure (a problem which those of us who collect these things can share?).

The decision was thereupon made to allow wear from normal breast suspension as an option. Most did this. Though the circumstances under which they could be worn then became an issue (and the government soon surrendered).

And the ITBs were given their place within the order of wearing, though these were (strangely, or NOT), published only in the GoI and not in the LG notified orders of wearing.

I am writing all this up right now, either for the OMRS journal (who may not be interestesd?) or for the JOMSA (who may not be interested?).

Hope this helps, ITBs are such great fun, such rich history, and so (studiously and intentionally) unappreciated . . . but maybe I shouldn't say that out in public??

Just one more question. When worn on the breast, where did they fit in the order of precedence? I'm reworking my British board, and want to get it right.

I'll look forward to the article. I've only had the reference from Dorling to date. I hope you place it in OMSA; I'm not a member of OMRS.

Now I'm confused. I thought Rai Bahadur and equivalent were worn around the neck. This picture looks as thought it's a breast badge.

Thanks for posting these; terrific pictures under the circumstances.

To think I lived across the Causeway from these for 7 years and never got over to see them !

No they are still usuing the Chinese Cannon captured from the Russians. Apparently there is enough metal for 88 more medals.

Thanks for the update.

So the usual track would be:

Hindu: Rao/Rai Sahib => Rao/Rai Bahadur => Diwan Bahadur (very rare at top level)

Muslim: Khan Sahib => Khan Bahadur => Sardar Bahadur (in Baluchistan only)

Sikh: Sardar Sahib (in Punjab) or Rao/Rai Sahib (elsewhere) => Sardar Bahadur (a very rare leap)

So as he progressed up the tree of these awards, did he wear only the highest, or all two / three?

I thought I had read somewhere (probably on this forum?) that they had discontinued making the VC from the captured Russian guns. True or not?

Hello Adam,

First of all I would like to thank you for your prompt and very informative answer.

I apologise in advance but need of some more specific answers as following :

1)

I know that the Order of the 'Precious and Brilliant Golden Grain' and the Order of the 'Golden Grain' -although have similar names - are completely different Orders : Is this correct ?

If yes and if I well understood what you have written above and confronting it to what is written in the London Gazette, Field Marshal Douglas Haig received exactly the Order of the 'Precious and Brilliant Golden Grain' and, instead, General Sir William Robert Robertson received exactly the Order of the 'Golden Grain' : Am I correct ??

2)

Am I correct that the words 'Excellent Crop' were exclusively used to indentify the Order of the 'Precious and Brilliant Golden Grain' and NOT also the Order of the 'Golden Grain' ?

3)

Moreover a friend collector (of which I don't remember the name) told me that were used 2 types of ribbons for the 'Golden Grain' order :

"The original issue colours of the Golden Grain ribbon, 100mm wide, was yellow with red borders (1st type). This was changed in 1916 to yellow with 16mm white border (2nd type)".

Is this correct ?

4)

Last, I have always understood that either the 1st type of ribbon or the 2nd type (each for the correct period of issue) were adopted contemporaneously for both the 1st and 2nd classes.

In other words I mean that, taking as example the 2nd type ribbon (that yellow with 16mm white border), it was used for both the 1st and 2nd class.

Am I correct ??

I greatly appreciate if you can help me further and Hope that you can do so (If not my search will go to a dead end).

Awaiting to hear from you again

Best Regards

Lilo

I've sent of an enquiry to the Armed Forces Museum in Taipei. Let's see what they say.

Colombia did not participate in WWI. The country was officially neutral until 1943, when it joined the Allies. It did not contribute any combat forces to the cause.

To expand its international influence, the Colombians sent an infantry battalion and a frigate to Korea. As already mentioned, the Colombians acquitted themselves very well in Korea, seeing hard combat at Old Baldy, in particular. The Spanish-language UN Korea Medal was primarily for issue to the Colombians.

Thanks for the help, Jeff.

Wow Hugh!! I really appreciate those statistics! I have learned something today.

Did Columbia participate in WW1 and WW2?

Sorry, don't know. Maybe someone else can enlighten us. I suspect probably yes for WW II.

Yes, they sent a battalion which was attached to the 7th US Infantry Division and a frigate. They suffered serious losses in the March '53 battle for Old Baldy. During the length of the campaign, Colombian servicemen were awarded the following U. S. decorations :

Whoops; got cut off before I completed the list.

During the length of the campaign, Colombian servicemen were awarded the following U. S. decorations :

Legion of Merit - 2

Silver Star - 18

Bronze Star with "V" - 25

Bronze Star - 9

That's not a bad total for a unit of about 4300 men. (I'm assuming the Navy probably didn't get many of those, if any.)

For more data, see Kevin Ingraham's "Honors, Medals and Awards of the Korean War 1950- 1953".

Thanks Hugh! I had no idea that Columbians participated in the Korean War. The ribbon looks like the

Allied WW1 Victory medal. Thanks again for sharing the photo.

Yes, they sent a battalion which was attached to the 7th US Infantry Division and a frigate. They suffered serious losses in the March '53 battle for Old Baldy. During the length of the campaign, Colombian servicemen were awarded the following U. S. decorations :

Here are a few more. Unfortunately, I had to shoot them through the glass. (I'm not ready to unframe them.) They are:

COLOMBIA ? Naval Order of Admiral Padilla 1823 ? 1947, breast badge gilt and enamel, N. E. F.

Liverpool Medals, 11/00

COLOMBIA ? Cross of Valor, gilt, N. E. F.

Liverpool Medals, 11/00

COLOMBIA - Orden Militar del 13 de Junio (Military Order of the 13th of June), Commander, by Fibo of Bogota', EF

Jeffrey B. Floyd, Alexandria, VA 6/93

COLOMBIA - Cruz de Orden Publico, Valor Interior, Mint

Bogota, 1976,

COLOMBIA - Korean Service Medal, Mint

Bogota, 1976,

Sorry about the quality of the image. It was much clearer before I had to resize for this forum.

The American tradition started with unit citations of various levels, including foreign unit citations. I had 4-5 of them worn on the right breast, quite separate from the individual awards. Nowadays, you see pictures of our four-stars with 4-5 rows of ribbons on the right breast. Can't imagine what they all are.

Missed this topic. Adolf Albrecht Friedl?nder published extensively between 1914 and 1933. One interesting title is about a psychological analysis of Wilhelm II.

Vielen Dank to both of you. I appreciate the additional insight. From my initial post, you can see that I misunderstood his medical speciality. Or perhaps Reg led me astray, just to amke the bar more interesting. I'm glad to have this information. I wonder what has happened to his family? Any thoughts?

One is reminded of the Military General Service Medal (1793 - 1814) authorised by H. M. grateful government in 1847, or the Army of India Medal (1799 - 1826, authorised in 1851.

Just to add to the comment, I remember a listing of a South Atlantic medal to a BAE technician in a Liverpool Medals catalogue.

I can only manage Chinese dates... I need ALPHABETS to work with.

Well, the age remains a mystery, since Chiang was still around into the 1970s.

Thanks for your efforts, Hugh. Completely outside anything the owner or I can manage with our assortment of European languages.

The Museum finally got back to us - I'm posting the complete message from my friend.

I got two calls back from the Museum, the medal you are searching for origin came out from a civilian organization, Aviation Construction Association, ( not MoD) chaired by Madame Chiang. Thus it shows the name of her husband: Generalissimo Ke-Shiek Chiang. I was told that your book ( that I gave you ) shows Gen. Ku, Chu-Tung of ROCAF obtained a type-A medal from the same organization. While your picture shows a type-B medal. These are not official medals, thus MoD/ROCAF is not obligated to keep the file. During WW II, I was told, such ambiguous things happen quite often.

So, not MOD/military, but certainly with a certain level of status due to Mme Chiang's sponsorship.

hello Hugh,

I dont know if its still in use, was awarded to my father in 1988.

Thanks, I've got a fairly large colection of ROC medals, but have never seen this one before.

reverse

Thanks for this post, Humberto. Do you know whether this medal is still current?

Best,

Hugh

The crowns and eagle certainly look Russian, but the inscription on the reverse center (Mikhael III Angelos O Komnenos) is Greek. I cannot locate Michael IIIrd Komnenos immediately, but that was the surname of one of the dynasties of Byzantine emperors. Perhaps either the school's original founder or a modern Pretender?

The Komnenos line ruled from 1057 to 1185, but their only Michael was the VIIth. An Emperor Michael III "the Drunkard" ruled 842-867, but was from another family. So I'm confused about this inscription.

"In hoc signo vinces" was the original Emperor Constantine's motto, and the Latin on back apparently refers to some Academy named after him.

Perhaps the Double Eagle with crowned "K" indicates KARL-- the last Hapsburg Emperor of Austria-Hungary as a Protector? The crowns of Austria-Hungary and Tsarist Russia were similar:

Some sort of Catholic (I can hardly imagine the use of LATIN otherwise) school currently/recently in Istanbul????

In hoc signo vinces = In this sign, conquer A very common Christian saying // Ex oriente lux = From the East, Light. Not sure how that advances the question.

This is really the end of an era. I suspect the Bofors 40/60 may have been one of the most widespread guns in history, and served with distinction for many decades. I remember hearing of the selection of the 40 / 60 for the Fremantles and wondered why the RAN had not gone for the 40 / 70. (I was in the weapons business at the time, and had the "everything new" mindset). One of your gunnery officers gave me a whole series of very cogennt reasons. It's a great gun, and I suspect it'll be in use for a few more decades in some more obscure parts of the world. .

By the way, no where in the documentation do they give his first or middle names. Bloody formal, those Germanics.

OK, you've convinced me that I really need to root around and find the papers. I think there was an obituary among them which suggested he may have gone back to Vienna to die.

Well, perhaps I'm not terminally disorganised yet - I found the papers. The recipient is Prof. Dr. A. A. Friedlaender. He is mentioned in a letter from the Kanselarij der Koninklijke Huisorden (Chancellery of the Royal House Order?), The Hague as medical superintendant of the private clinic Hohemark in the Taunus, West Germany. He was appointed Commander of the Family Order of Orange on May 13, 1913. Perhaps the most amusing note is the following quote - "The reason for the award of the above decoration was not mentioned in the register."

His death in Bad Aussee on 19 January 1949 was written up in the Viennese Weekly Medical Journal on 11 June 1949, and clearly claims him as Austrian. He was born on 8 August 1870 and attended the Univ. of Vienna, with further work at Frankfurt a. M. and Jena. He was recognized as a German doctor at Bonn in 1903, running a private hospital and later teaching at the University of Bonn.

During WW I, he served as a medical officer serving in Warsaw and as neuropathologist on the Western Front. After the war, he settled in Freiburg, but was boycotted by the Nazis and returned to Austria in 1936. Despite the Anschluss, he stayed in Austria, but it sounds as though he was not very active thereafter. After all, he was almost 70 years old. I'll try to include a scan of him in full fig (civil). It's a rescan of a photocopy, so don't look for a lot of detail.

Sorry, didn't see a picture of the reverse.