W McSwiggan

I've copied and sent this to the Rickmeister.

Will post his response when received.

Rudi - was that all awards of this class or just with swords?

In the hessian order list from 1909

listed 166 Awards named

rudi

Sadly I do not have access to Nimmergut’s multi-volume set that might shed more light.
In my library – the only source of information on this order is O’Connor – volume VII.

He stated that the order was created on 1 May, 1840 and continued until the armistice in 1918. Swords were added in 1849. Knight’s cross grade was divided into 1st & 2nd class in 1859.

Per O’Connor prior to WWI the award was liberally awarded without swords. Swords awards were rare limited to the war of 1870 & colonial service (on active duty on May 6, 1914 there were only 40 officers holding the order with swords). Post war publications showed one knight’s 1st class to an admiral and one knight’s 1st class to a marine infantry Oberleutnant Heinrich Betz. O’Connor could find no sources for Army awards. O’Connor was confident that few (“Only a handful”) Army Swords awards were made. He sites the Reichsheer rank list of 1924 and Navy list of 1926 showing 2 and 0 swords awards respectively.

I've never seen one as light as yours or quite as dark as Bob's.
The original I have shows significant bronze high lights. Of course mine sat in the traditional shoe box until I had the stuff mounted - sadly costing me the original ribbon. My point being - medals and ribbons do not always remain sets so the ribbon without addenda does not necessarily make your medal a US reproduction. The finish on your medal and the casting details that do not match Bob's or mine suggest that your example is not an original (issued or otherwise) from South Vietnam.
Appurtenances for this award were:
Palm for award at ARVN level
Gold Star for award at corps level
Silver Star for awards at division level
Bronze Star for awards at regimental level
Regards
wem

Also don't forget Massachusetts Institute of Technology Police. Police officer Sean Collier was also tragically murdered by them.

You are so correct - horrible omission on my part

The agencies that I know of that were involved included the Boston & Watertown Police from directly involved communities.

From the Commonwealth (State) level - the State Police and Metropolitan Boston Transit Authority Police.

Federal agencies were the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives plus the Federal Bureau of Investigation.

I am sure that other municipalities were also involved reinforcing those mentioned.

I heard mention of New Hampshire State Police involvement as well.

Massachusetts National Guard Troops and equipment were also involved.

I suspect this listing is not exhaustive and more forces were also used.

The police presence in Boston and surrounding communities was amazing.

There was investigative work going on (including detentions) as far away as New Bedford (South Coast Massachusetts) in the vicinity of my town - one of the suspects (the survivor) was a student at the State University near-by.

Just off the phone with Rick - has heat, power and has cornered the market on world supply of snow! All is well and normal in central Massachusetts!

You may have trouble with contact for a bit - we've just had a huge blizzard! I had to travel to another state just to enjoy electricity! Trees down - power out - no heat! Life is grand!!!

Haven't been able to get to Rick but will try again soon.

I will try to update you.!

Hi Wayne,

you are welcome.

Dont worry about Rick. I am in close contact with him :-)

Lots of greetings

Daniel

Daniel Thank you very much! Clearly a huge effort - very much appreciated.

Will share with Rick Research as I know he will be interested.

Regards,

Wayne

Hello Wayne,

I try so. Now 75 in the list...

Sorry for all the abbreviations :-)

Greetings

Daniel

Bartenwerffer, Gg.v. KL S 146, KKaD U-Schule, OTLdRaD Heer KO4, HOH3X, BH, HH, LüH, HP3b,
MMV2, GSF3b, WF3b, RSt3

Bastian, Max KL Amazone, AStO Finnl, 38 Adm KVKRKX, HOH3X, BH, HH, LüH, MMV2, WHDA1, FinnFK2X, ÖM3K, SW2b 24

Bauer, Arnold Jakob v. GL 17.D RAO2aEX, KO3, DA, BH, HH, LüH, MMV1, MStMV2, OV2a, OK1

Behr, Ernst v. RM Adj 9.AK, M KR 1 KO4, EK1, Joh, BZ3b, BMV4XKr, BH, HH, LüH, MK3, MG3, MMV1, MStMV2, OV3b, GSF3b, EH3b, SMK, SEK4, DD3, NN4, RA3, RSt3, SK4

Below, Otto v. GdI 17.Ar SAO, plmE, VOPKX, KO2a, HOH1X, HOH2aX, RM, DA, BBI1X, BMJ1, BMV1X, BH, HH, LüH, HT, MMV1, SH2b, SA1gStX, GSF1X, WVK1, WK1X, WF3a, BA1, ÖL1K, ÖEK2, ÖM1K, TI1X, TL1X, TH

Beneckendorff u.v. Hindenburg, Paul Ludw.v. GFM SAO, plmE, RAOGKEXR, RAO4X, KO2, HOH1aX, Joh, EKgSt, EK2 70, VK, DA, 66K, SWA St, HEK1X, AB1XKr, AK, BV1, BZ1, BMJ1, BMVGK, BrK1, BH, HH, LüH, HT, LH2, LKEK, MK1bX, MMV1, MStMV1, MStMV2T, OV1XmL, OK1, REKj1XKr, RK, SRK, SH1, SA1, GSF1X, EH1XmK, SMK, CK, SLH1, SLK, WVK1X, WM1, WK1X, WF1, BT1, BA1XmK, FF1, JM2, USt1, ÖMT1, ÖM1KBr, ÖM3KBr, ÖGrSL, SMV4, TO1Br, TNI1XBr, TM1XBr, TI1, TH

Brandenstein, Hans v. MiG XI.AK, OTL VO Rum, 22 GLaD Königsbg RAO4Kr, KO2X, HOH3X, BBI3, BZ3a,
BMV3XKr, BMV4Kr, BH, HH, LüH, HP3a, HT, MG2c, REKjOX, SA3X, GSF2X, EH2bX, EH2b, SMK, SEK2X, WVKOX, WF3a, ÖEK2, ÖM3K, SS3a

Buchwaldt, Christ.v. M IR 75, RIR 12, OTLaD RAO4, HOH3X, Joh, DA, BH, HH, LüH, ÖM3K, SS3a, SN3 Bülle,

Gunnar Lt FPiKp 9, 25 Lt EK1, BH, HH, LüH, Vas

CAMPE, Friedr.Wilh.v. O FAR 43, GL 108.ID RAO2EX, KO2aX, DA, BrK2, BH, HH, LüH, LK, SLH2, SLK, OV3a, OK1

Capelle, Eduard v. Adm StS RMarAmt plm, RAOGKEX, RAO1EX, RAO2aEBr, RAO3SKr, KO1, HOH3, VK, DA, Kol DOA 88, China St, SWA St, BMV1X, BH, HH, LüH, HP2b, MG2b, OV1, OK1, SA1gStX, WK1X, ÖEK1K, ÖFJ2, ÖM1K, RSt2

Conta, Rich.Heinr.v. GdI KarpK plmE, RAO2aEX, RAO4Kr, KO1X, HOH2X, DA, BMV2aX, BH, HH, LüH, HP3, HT?, OV3b, EH3a, ÖL2aK, ÖEK1K

Dohna-Schlodien, Nikolaus Burggr.u.Gr.z. KK Möwe, KzS plm, HOH3 Exil, BV3, BMJ3, BH, HH, LüH, HT, LKEK, SLK, OK1, SH3, GSF3aX, WM3, FinnFK2X, ÖL3K

Ebert, Paul KzS AbtCh AdmSt RAO4, EK1, DA, Kol Ponape, BMVOX, BH, HH, LüH, MG2c, OV3b, OK1, FinnFK2X, TO4

Eichstädt, Franz ChefIng RAO4Kr, KO3, EK1, DA, BH, HH, LüH, MMV2

Emrich, Wilh HdR ER 3, MED 1, Präs.RB-Dir Bay. LD2, BMV4X, BH, HH, LüH, REKj3XKr, SA3aX, GSF3bX, EH3aX, WF3aX

Falkenhausen, Ludw.Frhr.v. GO 6.Ar SAO, plmE, RAOGKEX, KO1, EK2 70, Joh, DA, 66M, China St, BBI1X, BZ2aE, BZ3aX, BMVGKX, BMV1X, BMV2a, BH, HH, LüH, HP1, MStMV1, MStMV2T, OK1, SH3, SA1gStX, SEK1XKr, WK1X X zu, WF1, JV3, JM3, ÖL2, ÖEK1, ÖM1K, RA2Br, SS2b, SK1, TI1X, TH

Fengler IntRat Stv IX.AK EK1, DA, BrK2, BH, HH, LüH, MMV2r

Fischer, Otto HdR OB Ost, BankDir Greifswald EK1, BMV4X, BH, HH, LüH, OK2, SMK

Folttmann, Jos. Lt FR 38, iG FH, 25 H RWMin, GL DKiS, EK1Sp, KVK1X, BH, HH, LüH, SMK, SchlesA2, WHDA1

Francois, Herm.Karl Bruno v. GdI KG VII.AK plmE, RAO1EX, RAO2aEKr, KO1, DA, SWA, China, HEK2a, AB2b, BZ2a, BMV1X, BH, HH, LüH, HP2a, HP3, LDH1X, LKEK, REKj2, EH2b, SEK2, WVK1X, WK1X, CV1, GE2b, JM3, ÖEK1K

Hagemann, Fritz H (d?) BhfsKdt Brüssel-Nord, geh.JustRat RAO4, KO3, EK2, LD1, AK, BrK2, BH, HH, LüH, LK, EH3aX

Hessen, Ernst Ludw. GHz.v. GdI SAO, HOH1, EK1, HEK1X, AB1, BT, BH, BrHGK, BH, HH, LüH, HL1, HP1X, HgL, HT, MK1a, MMV2, OV1mK, SLK1, SRK, GSF1, EH1, HSCEM, SMK, WK1, BA1, GE1, GG, GB1C, GV1, GJM1, GJDM, GKM, GKM11, JAn, MU1, NMW1, USt1, ÖM1K, ÖMJK, ÖJM, PrmG1, RumSt1, RAd, RW4, REMAIII, RKrMNII, SE1, SgV

Hipper, Franz Ritt.v. VA Bef.AufKlSchiffe plm, RAO2aEX, RAO4Kr, KO2, DA, BMJ2, BMV2aX, BMV2, BLM3J, BH, HH, LüH, MMV2, OK1, SA2bX, GSF3a, WMV2, NO2b, ÖEK1K, RA2, RSt2

Hopmann, Albert KzS, VA RAO2aEXs2, RAO3SXRKr, RAO4XKr, KO2, DA, China, Kol Kam 91, BZ2b, BMVOX, BH, HH, LüH, SA2aX, WF2bX X zu, MC4, ÖM2K, ÖM3K, RA2X, RSt2, SS2b, TM1X, VB3

Horn, Johs. FK MarSt O, KAaD RAO4Kr, KO2X, DA, BZ3aXE, BMV3X, BH, HH, LüH, MMV2, GE2b, JM4, NO3a, RA3, RSt2

Huck, Wilh. MilIntRat IX.RK RAO4, EK1, DA, LD1, SWA, BH, HH, LüH, MMV2

Hutier, Oskar v. GdI 8.Ar plmE, RAO1EX, RAO2aEXKr, HOH2aX, KO2, DA, SWA St, China St, HEK1X, BZ2b, BMV1X, BMV2aX, BH, HH, LüH, HL3a, HP1, HT, MG2b, OV2b, SH2a, SA1X, EH2b, SLK, DD1, GV1, NN3, RumSt1, TI2X, TL2X, TH

Jochim, Theod. MiG, OaD OQM 17.Ar RAO4, HOH3X, DA, AK, BMV3XKr, BH, HH, LüH, HP3a, HT, MMV2, WK3XL L zu

Karpf, Johs.v. KzS FA Kaiser "Moltke", 18 KA RAO3SKr, KO2X, HOH3X X zu, DA, SWA St?, Ölberg, BZ3b, BMV3XKr, BH, HH, LüH, MG2c, MMV1, OV2bX, OV3a, OK1, GSF3b, EH2bX, DD2b, GE2b, JK2, MC2b, NO2b, ÖL3K, RA2Br, TM2, TI2X, TL2X, TBesKaiser

Koeth, Jos., Dr.Ing M KM, OaD, 23 RWirtschMin RAO4Kr, HOH3X, BMV3X, BMV4, BrK2, BH, HH, LüH, OK1, SA3a, GSF2X, WK3XL f.X zu, BA3X, ÖEK3K, ÖM3K, TM3, TH

KUHL, Dr.phil.Herm.Jos.v. GLiG HGr.Kronprinz Ruppr. plmE, plm KuW, RAO2aEX, RAO3SKr, KO1X, DA, HEK1X, AK, BMJ2, BMVGKX, BMV1X, BMV2aX, BMVO, BrK2, BH, HH, LüH, LK, MStMV1, SH3, SA1X, EH1X, WM2, WK2c, BMO1K, GE2b, ÖFJ1, TO1X, TL1X, TH

Lehmann, Arthur OLt MGA 5, MaD St.dt.Gen i.Finnl HOH3X, AK, BH, HH, LüH, SLK, ÖM3K, FinnFK2X

Lettow-Vorbeck, Paul v. GM DOA plmE, RAO4XKr, KO2Xs2, KO3X, DA, SWA Oranje, China, BM3, BMV4Kr, BMV4X, BH, HH, LüH, MMV2, OV2aXL, SH3, SA3X, EH2b, WK3L, Vas, RSt3X

Linsingen, Alex v. GdI OB HGr SAO, plmE, RAOGKEX, KO2a, HOH1X, Joh, EK2 70, DA, SWA St, AB2b, ARJM?, BZ3aE, BMJ1, BMVGKX, BMV2a, BrK2, BH, HH, LüH, MK1b, MG2a, SH2b, SA1gStX, WK1X, WF1, ÖL1K, ÖM1K, ÖGrSL, USt1, SS1

Louran, Hugo KA RAO3S, KO2asw St u.Band zu, EK1, DA, SWA St, BMVO, BH, HH, LüH, OV2b, OK1, SMK, DD2b, GE2b, JM3, JMessina

Lübcke, Fritz HiG 16.AK, NachrO HGr F, MaD RH KO4, HOH3X, AK, BMV4X, BrK2, BH, HH, LüH, HT, LK, SA3aX, TH

Luckner, Felix Gr.v. KL Seeadler KO4RM, EK1, RM, BMV4X, BrK1, BH, HH, LüH, MMV1, MStMV1, OK1, SA3aX, SsRM, BT4bX, ÖM3K, TL2X, UKDM

Ludendorff, Erich GdI 1.OQM Ch GS plmE, RAOGKEX, RAO1EX, RAO3SKr, KO2, HOH2aX, EKGK, VK, DA, HEK1X, AK, BZ1X, BrK2, BMJ1, BMVO, BH, HH, LüH, HT, LKEK, MG2b, MMV1, MStMV1, MStMV2T, OV1XmL, OK1, RK, SH1, SH2a, SA1gStX, GSF2aX, EH1X, CK, SMK, WVK1X, WM1, WM2, WK1X, WK2c, ÖL1K, ÖL2aK, ÖEK1K, ÖFJ2a, ÖM1K, ÖM2K, ÖGrSL, JM3, SS1, TH

Mackensen, Aug.v. GFM OB 9.Ar SAO, plmE, RAOGKEXKr, RAO2aEKr, KO1, HOH1aX, HOH2a, EKGK, EK2 70, DA, Jerus, HEK1X, BZ2bE, BMJ1, BMVGKX, BrH2a, BH, HH, LüH, HP2b, LH3, MG2a, MMV1, OV1X X zu, REKj1XKr, SH2a, SA1gStX, GSF1X, GSF2a, EH1X, CK, SLH1, WVK1X, WK1X X zu, BA1Br, ÖMT1, ÖL1K,
ÖFJ1, ÖM1KBr, USt1, RA1, TO2, TM1

Mecklenburg, Ad. Friedr Hz.v. OTL á.l.s. 2.GDR, OaD SAO, RAOGK, EK1, Joh, DA, HEK1X, BH, BMV3X, BrHGK, BH, HH, LüH, MK1amK, MG1, MMV1, MStMV2, MSGMFFIII, OV1mK, REKj1Kr, RK, SRK, GSF1, EH1X, SMK, WK1, Olympia1, MU1, MP1, ÖL1, ÖM2K, RAN, ST1, TO1

Mecklenburg-Schwerin, Friedr.Franz IV.Ghz v. GdK SAO, RAOGK, HOH1, EK1, Joh, HEK1X, BT, BZBI, BH, BMVGKX, BrHGK, BrK2, BH, HH, LüH, HG1, HEA1, HL1, HT, SLH1, MK1a, MG1, MMV1, MStMV2T, MSGMFFIII, OV1mK, REKj1X, SRK, GSF1, EH1X, SMK, WK1, BA1mK, DE, DD5, GV1, NL1, ÖM1K, RAd, USt1

Mudra, Bruno v. GdI OB 8.Ar plmE, RAO1EKr, KO1, DA, 70, China St, BZ1, BMVGKX, BMV1, BH, HH, LüH, HT, LK, SA1gStX, SMK, WK1X, WF2b, ÖEK1, PL2, TM1

Nerger, Karl Aug., Dr.med.h.c. FK "Wolf", KzS, 39 char.KAaD plm, RAO4, KO4X, HOH3X, DA, China Taku, BMJ3, BV3, BH, HH, LüH, MMV1, OK1, SH3, TM4

Perponcher-Sedlnitzky, Edgar Gr.v. M BtlF IR 156, AOK 6, Ghzgl.Sä. ObJägMstr RAO4, KO2, EK1, Joh, BZ3bE, BH, HH, LüH, SA3aKr, GSF2X, SW, EH3b, SLH4, NN4, ÖFJ4, PL5, ST5, TM3

Platen, Axel v. HiG 13.D, MiG 18.Ar, 25 O CdS Insp Erz u.BildWes, GM plm, RAO4, HOH3X, Joh, VAs, DA,
HEK3aX, AK, BMV4XKr, BH, HH, LüH, HT, LDH3X, LK, MMV1, MStMV1, SA3aX, SMK, SLK, SEK3, TH, RumSt5

Preußen u.d.Dt.Reiches, Wilh.Friedr.Kronpr.v. GdI SAO, plmE, RAOGKKr, KO1, HOH1aX, HEK1X X zu, AB1X X zu, BV1, BT, BZ1, BH, BMJ1, BrHGK, BrK2, BH, HH, LüH, HL1, HT, LKEK, MK1amK, MMV1, OV1gKr, RK, SRK, SH1, GSF1X X zu, EH1X, SMK, WM1, WK1, BL1, BA1, CDI2, DE, GG, GV1, JKd, KE1, JAn, MC1, MU1, NL1, NO2amK, USt1, ÖM1K, ÖGrSL, ÖJM98, PL.G, PCuB, PT1mK, RumC1mK, RumK1, RAd, SSer, SWA1, SM, SgV, TCh, TJm, TNJ, TO1Br

Preußen, Heinr.Alb.Wilh.Pr.v. GO/ GFM, GrAdm SAO, plmE, RAOGKKr, KO1, HOH1, Joh, DA, PrGHM, HEK1, AB1, BT, BV1, BZBI, BH, BrHGK, BH, HH, LüH, HgL, HL1, HT, HVM, MK1a, MMV1, OV1mgK, OK1, SRK, SA1gStKrX, GSF1, EH1, WK1, BL1, BrsC1, CDI1, DE, GE1, GG, GB1C, HKA1, JKdmK, JAn, JM1, NL1, USt1, ÖM1K, ÖJK08, ÖJM98, PCuB, PC1, PB1, PT1, RumSt1, RAd, SSer, NO1, SWA1, SM, SGV, SMK4, TI1, TO1Br, VB1

Preußen, Wilh.II.Dt.Kaiser, Kön.v. GFM SAO, plm, RAOGKKr, KO1, HOH1aX, EKGK, Joh, DA, China St, SWA St, HEK1X, HEK3X, AB1, AK, BT, BV1, BZ1, BH, BMJ1, BrHGK, BrK2, BH, HH, LüH, HL1, HT, LKEK, SLK1, MK1a, MMV1, MStMV1, MStMV2T, MSGMFFIII, OV1gKrmK, OK2, REKj1Kr, RK, SRK, SH1, GSF1X, SW, EH1X, CK, SMK, WM1, WK1, BL1, BT1, DE, GE1, GH, JKd, JAn, JMOS1, NL1, USt1, ÖMT1, ÖMT3,
ÖM1K, PAP, PCuB, PT1, RumSt1, RAd, SSer, SWA1, ST1, SK1, SgV, TI1, TO1Br, TI1X, TL2X

Quast, Ferdin. v. GdI IX.AK, 6.Ar plmE, RAO1EX, KO1, Joh, EK2 70, DA, BZ1, BZ3aE, BMV1X, BH, HH, LüH, MK1bX, MMV1, MSMV1, OK1, SH2b, SA1gStX, SMK, SLH3Kr, JK3, ÖL3, ÖEK2, ÖFJ1, PL3, SS2a, SMV3, TM2, TI1X, TL1X, TH

Richthofen, Manfred Frhr.v. RM Fhr JaSta 11 plm, RAO3XKr, HOH3X, BMV4X, BrK2, BH, HH, LüH, HT, SLK, SH3, EH3aX, CM2X, WM3, ÖEK3K, ÖM3K, TI2X, TL2X, TH

Riemenschneider, Dr.Herm. IntAss X.AK, IntRataD EK1, BMV4B, BH, HH, LüH, HT, OK1, SLK

Scheer, Reinhard Adm Ch Hochseeflotte plmE, RAO1EX, RAO2aEXKr, KO2aXR, KO4X, HOH3, DA, China, Kol Kam 84 DOA 88, AB3a, BBI1X, BMJ1, BMVO, BH, HH, LüH, MG2a, MMV1, OV1X, OK1, SH3, SA2a, EH1X, WM1, WF1, JV3, JM2, ÖL1K, ÖEK3, ÖFJ1, ÖKrM, RSt2a

Scheiff, Dr. HdL LwB Altona, Geh.RegRat, LdRat, MdL RAO3SKr, KO3, EK2, VK, RKM2, LD1, SWA St?, PrFwEZ, BH, HH, LüH, SK

Schlick, Hans-Carl v. FK Kdt."Straßburg" RAO4, HOH3X, DA, BZ3aXE, BMV3X, BH, HH, LüH, MMV2, OK1, OK2a, SA3X, SA3aXKr, NO3b

Schröder, Ludw.v. AzD KG MarK plmE, RAO1EX X zu, KO1, HOH1X, HOH2a, DA, China, HEK1X, BMV1X, BrK2, BH, HH, LüH, HT, MMV2, SA1gStX, EH1X, SMK, SLK, WK1X, PB2b, RSt2, SS2b, SMK4

Schultz, Dr.Wilh. WGKrRat IX.AK RAO4, KO2, EK2w, LD2, RKM3, SWA St, BMV3XKrB, BH, HH, LüH, LK, MMV2r, SA3

Schwarte, Max GM 79.IB, GL 10.ID RAO2aEX, KO2, DA, BMV3, BH, HH, LüH, SA2b, WF2b, BA4, ÖEK2

Schwerdtfeger, Ernst MiG Eisenb, RIR 219, OTLaD MED 3 RAO4, EK1, BMV4XKr, BH, HH, LüH, SA3aX?, WK3X, ÖM3K

Stammer, Gg. KL AdmSt EK2, BH, HH, LüH

STEIN, Herm.Christlieb v. GdA 41.D, 14.AK, KrMin plmE, RAO1EX, KO2, HOH1X, VK, DA, HEK1X, AK, BZ1X, BMVGKX, BMV1X, BMV2aX, BrK1, GSF1X, BH, HH, LüH, LDH1X, LK, MG2a, MMV2, OV3a, OK1, SA1XgSt, SA2a, GSF1X, SMK, WK1X, WF1X, BMO1X, FinnFK1, ÖL1K, ÖEK1K, ÖEK2, ÖM2K, SS1, TO1XBr, TI1X, TH

Steinwachs, Ad. M IR 142, Kdr.RIR 75, GMaD RH LKdt Baden plm, RAO4Kr, DA, BV3, BZ3aX, BH, HH, LüH, MMV2, OK1, RumSt4

Stülpnagel, Otto v. H IR 131, MiG RK, 35 GdFlg, 40 GdI, MilBefH Frankr RAO4, HOH3X, KVK1X, Joh, DA,
AB3b, BMV4XKr, BH, HH, LüH, MG3, MMV2, OK1, SA3aX, WK3X, FlgErinn, ÖM3K, JK5, TM4

Tettenborn, Karl H IR 131, MiGaD FH EK1, BMV4X, BH, HH, LüH, OK1, SA3aX, WF3aX, BMO4K, ÖM3K

Tirpitz, Alfred Peter Friedr.v. GrAdm SAOBr, plm, RAOGKEKr, KO2a, HOH1aX, DA, 70, China St, SWA St, BT, BZ1EmK, BMVGKX, BLM3J, BrHGKX, BH, HH, LüH, HP1Kr, MG1, OK1, OV1, SRK, SA1XgStKr, GSF1, EH1, SLH1, WK1X, WF1, BA1, CV1, CDII1, DD1, FE3, GE1, GV1, JP, JM1, JK2, NO1, USt1, ÖL1, ÖFJ1, ÖM1K, RumSt1, RANBr, RWA, SS2b, SW1, SC1, SMV4, SMK4, TO1, TI1

Ußlar, Ludw.v. KA RAO2EX, RAO3SKr, KO2, DA, BH, HH, LüH, MMV2, GE3b, JM5, RA3

Völckers, Friedr. MiG 21.AK, OaD OQM 4.Ar RAO4, KO3, HOH3X, BMV4XKr, BH, HH, LüH, MMV1, MStMV2, OV3a, SA3a, EH2bX, EH3a, ÖL3K, TL2X, TH

Wachenfeld, Edmund HiG 5.AK, M OB Ost, 35 GdFlg, 40 GdA DKiS, KVK1X, RAO4, HOH3X, BMV4X,
BH, HH, LüH, SA3aX, WLDA1 (DA), BMO3, ÖEK3K, ÖM3K, TH

Waitz, Johs. M FR 80, GM CdS KM GrHQ RAO4Kr, KO2X, DA, BMV3XKr, BMV4Kr, BH, HH, LüH, LDH2X, LDH4a, OK1, SA3X, SA3aKr, SLH3, WK2cX, WK3L, ÖEK2K, SS2b

Waldeck u.Pyrmont, Friedr.Fü.z. GdK SAO, EK1, DA, AB1, BT, BRJM, BH, BH, HH, LüH, HVME05, LH1, SLK1, SRK, EH1X, WVK1XKr, WK1X X zu, WJubi11, NL1, NgL1, ÖEK1K, TI1X, TI2X, TH

Wangenheim, Kurt Frhr.v. H 3.GRzF, OTLaD IR 95 RAO4, KO4X, EK2, DA, SWA, China, BrH3bX, BrK2, BH, HH, LüH, MMV2, SA3aX, EH2bX, CK, SMK

WASILIEWSKI, Hugo v. GMzD 25.IB, GdIaD 46.RD RAO2aEX, KO1X, DA, BZ3a, BH, HH, LüH, MMV1, OK1, ÖEK2, SE2

Wedding, Carl KzS, VA 2.MarD RAO2EXXRs2, RAO4X, KO2, DA, China Tientsin, BH, HH, LüH, OK1, OK2a, GM3, SMK1, DtEDM, Flandern, Kyffh, UKDM

Wenig, Rich. OLtzS DOA, KKzV EK1, EK2Sp, BMV4X, BLM3J, BH, HH, LüH, Vas, Elefant

Witte, Dr.Karl GA, OGAaD 9.AK RAO3S, KO3, EK1, DA, RKM3, BMV3XKr, BrH3a, BH, HH, LüH, MMV2, MStMV2, GSF3a, SchlesA1, ÖFJ2K, TH

Daniel - any chance you could post a listing of the triples?

Regards,

Wayne

regarding triple awards, I have at the moment 74 triples in my files.

@B.Holst, could you please show me the Hohenzollern document of Thesing?

Greetings

Daniel

O'Connor makes only a fleeting reference citing victories on page 325 of volume 7.

Wonderful bar!

Will extend your greetings on next speaking.

With kind regards to Rick:

Vizeadmiral Hugo Louran (1865-1931)

Just spoke with Rick Research about this thread and specifically, triple awards of the Hanseatic Cross. He suggested that amongst the Hanseatic regiments, there were (more than one might expect) a number of instances of triple awards. He could not access his data at the time we spoke so could not provide numbers.

Thinking it might be a miniature reproduction of a "pickel plate" I tried to find it in Turinetti's handbook. Couldn't - sorry but in puzzling, sometimes a no is almost as important as a yes. Good luck!

Hi, this stickpin is 3.5 cm... does anyone know what it is?

Whoa!

Am I mistaken or does the ribbon bar in the lower right corner of post #34 have all three Hanseatic Crosses???

Sure looks like it to me!

While no expert, I suspect that this individual is something special!

In O'Connor's volume 7, he identifies only one aviator (medal magnets that they were) who was awarded all three - yup - Manfred von Richthofen. Clearly this was not his bar but how many can there be? Even Udet had to settle for two!

Here is mine , strangely I don´t have any Hamburg bars ..... A goal for 2013 !!

First out Bremen

and then Lübeck with a ribbon bar , and last one wich I showed here before but still unnamed ....

I have one !! guy who got this and nothing more so far , but I can´t be sure that its him ...

Christer

Wow... any reason why the two "reds" are not together?

Neat bar - thanks for sharing.

I suspect awards are mounted in order won. Just a guess - wasn't that the proper manner of wear at one point?

A picture paints a 1000 words....

He looks enthralled but...

is it the Iron Cross or the Iron Boobs???

Troops get like that after a long stay at the front you know!

Not to be picky but post #3 is Hamburg not Bremen.

Very nice bars.

No multiple Hanseatic Cross bars yet? Rather rare I know but neat!

What a great prophet!

I'm drooling... come on - bring it on!

BTW - one of my favorite early readings was "Falcons of France".

In fairness, I’ve just done some follow up reading of Previtera. While it is clear that the full sized, issue medals of the Pour le Mérite had eagles with no crowns with the single exception of an unknown maker in the 1800s, it was common to find minis on bows made by Godet with crowned eagles.
Normally the crowned eagles were part of the grand cross insignia (5 awards) and this mini is clearly not a grand cross.
So is it real or not – I have no idea!

I do not specialize in the medals - rather the information hence I would ask one more expert than I to comment.

It is my belief that the PlM eagles were not crowned.

It is possible that whoever created the mini-PlM did so with crowned eagles I suppose.

Again - I'm no expert but I suspect that this chain was "assembled" not original. The components may all be original & vintage while the assembly is not.

Consulting with others - PlM minis are normally on bows - not chains. This is because the clothing normally worn with chains would call for the wear of the cross at the throat. Less formal wear normally would have the cross alone on a bow as you have shown.

I suspect that your cross was originally on a bow.

Again - just my guesses - lets see what others think.

Bronze gilt, with gold plating. High quality enamel work, correct Eagle heads with "Crowns". Size about 15.4 mm x 15.4 mm.

Cheers

Whoa!

PlM Eagles are not crowned!

Johanniter yes - PlM no.

Not sure what is going on with this chain but I'm concerned.

Bogus order of precedence, strange selection of awards, non-matching attaching loops.

It was a complicated system with this FO, if the commander and Knight is looking almost the same.

While I will not claim to be the smartest guy around here – I’ve been interested in Imperial orders and decorations for about 15 years.

I do not collect (other than books) rather – study for understanding of the “system” and the historical soldiers.

The joy of Imperial German awards is their complexity and the often quirkiness of bestowals.

All that said, in my opinion – the Friedrich’s Order is pretty much the norm for Imperial Orders in terms of complexity. Because there are distinctions, easily observed distinguishing the Grand Cross, Commander Cross and two levels of Knight’s Cross – this is actually one of the easier orders to identify.

For many there is no such differentiation other than size. Check Prussian Red Eagle, Crown & Hohenzollern for example.

On your chain – we can not state with complete confidence that the Hohenzollern is a knight’s cross. It could be a Commander’s Cross and there is some justification in wondering about that!

Welcome to the world of Imperial!

Guess a picture is worth a thousand words...

Thanks Dave

What you are showing is a Knight First Class. Note the lack of a blue enamel ring around the center medallion, unlike the cross on the chain. The cross for the Commander grade is the same for the Commander 1st Class and the Commander 2nd Class. The difference is that the Commander 1st Class also includes a breast star.

This is a Commander's Cross:

DE_WFO_Cdr_X_UB.jpg

And the breast star of the Commander 1st Class:

WF2X_Stern_1_UBS.jpg

Here is the big version of the FO.

http://www.emedals.com/collectors-gallery/germany/german-states/wurttemberg/orders/wurttemberg-friedrich-order-3

It should be second class according to what I find on Emedals, the first class has no blue "ring" in it.

To atone for my sins – the least I can do is take the confusion out of the badge recognition.

Knight’s Cross, 2nd Class of the Friedrich’s order is a matte silver cross with a crowned F in the center medallion surrounded by a silver ring.

Knight’s Cross, 1st Class of the Friedrich’s order is a gilt cross enameled white with a crowned F in the center medallion surrounded by a gilt ring. There are flames between the arms of the cross and all higher grades.

Commander’s Cross, 1st and 2nd Class of the Friedrich’s order is a gilt cross enameled white with a crowned F in the center medallion surrounded by a blue enameled ring carrying the motto of the order – “God and My Right”. There are flames between the arms of the cross.

Grand Cross of the Friedrich’s order is a gilt cross enameled white with a bust of King Friedrich in relief in the center medallion surrounded by a blue enameled ring carrying the inscription – “King Friedrich of Württemberg”. There are flames between the arms of the cross.

The Commander 1st Class and the Grand Cross also wore stars of varying design on the breast.

All classes could be awarded with swords.

The grand cross could be awarded with crown as a special mark of distinction.

The insignia depicted on the chain shown is that of a commander – class unknown.