landsknechte

...and the other.

Long shot, I know. Now that there has been some more work on the various state's rolls, I was wondering if these two bars were any closer to being identifiable...

Do we know if everyone was physically given the war merit version, or were they awarded it on paper only?

I'd imagine there was significant difference in the rules between who could own one, and who could carry one and where they could get away with carrying it. I've never researched this particular subject, but there are countless references out there in regards to people in the merchant and artisan classes attending various sword schools in the early to middle 16th century. I know Albrecht D?rer was an avid swordsman, for one. Going into the lower social orders, it was the norm amongst the "volunteer" (aka mercenary) armies that soldiers were required to provide their own arms and armor. Obviously they weren't formally members of a military organization prior to mustering, and by their private ownership of weapons it would follow that these items were relatively freely available for purchase. I would suspect that the increasing power of the nation-state that came about in the early modern period, and the corresponding decline of a specific knightly class would lessen the "threat" posed by one single armed individual and thus the restrictions could safely be lessened.

...not the impression made by the stamp, but the actual stamp itself. The body of the stamp, the handle, etc.?

Since there are no devices, we will never know.

Some things only a MEDAL bar can tell us.

Even if we never know the exact grade, should I at least assume the war merit ribbon is the lower grade?

They all got the decoration on the ribbon for "Kriegsverdienst" first.

Why then was it worn in first place, as if it were a higher grade?

Also, the beamter ribbon is in first place, which leads me to believe that he earned a lower grade of the regular version first.

There were quite a few civil servants who got the MVK1x/2x for "Kriegsverdienst" and later on a MVK1x/MVO4x with war ribbon. All of them eturned the lower decoration.

Apparently not all of them.

I wished it was still mine ...

Well, I get used to sell bars and to get to know they are better than I thought.

Consider yourself fortunate, as the bar I sent you is one of only two bars I've ever traded or sold.

Yeah, Bavarian is my specialty / fetish.

That ? peach colored ribbon in 4th place is baffling me. Is it actually YELLOW with red edges (Mecklenburg Griffin Order?) Anhalt's Friedrich Cross was dark green and red or white edged.

No action at all WW1 (Noncombatant Hindenburg Cross) and NO long service suggests to me that this was some sort of civil servant mobilized in an army/navy uniform for the war's duration.

The precedence here is totally messed up, but without knowing exactly what REAL colors that 4th ribbon are, I'll wait for an accurate description.

PS Who did you buy this from? That does matter, nowadays, when so much that is screwy is being made by eCrap sellers out of original parts. I am deeply disturbed by the precedence here.

I assumed that it was a faded green, as I've got a Saxon Albrechtsorden that faded to a similar shade of sickly yellow. I'll confirm the actual color once I've got the bar in my grubby little paws.

I bought it from "Mount Antique" (aka cbdx21) on eBay.

Edit: I emailed the seller, and he said it was a uniform silver or gray color on both front and back. He could detect no trace of any other residual color. Will confirm when I get it in hand. Strange...

I like the 4 place the best. Is the placement of the first two correct?

I don't think the regulations differentiate between the two versions of the MVK, so probably the one is a higher grade than the other.

I hope so ... I hope we could get some information on this? Pity there are no devices on it ...

The eBay seller I had this one from had another one, but I was outbid on it so the set split. Here the picture, if it may help ...

Awesome! Even if the bars have been permanently separated, it's still neat to be able to hang onto the images and the information.

I'm guessing enlisted level but I'm not really sure. Definately some sort of story in that bar.

Quite happy with this one. My first China service ribbon bar. I'm assuming the plain blue ribbon in first place is a Prussian Crown order, given the other Prussian decorations. At first glance, this bar looks like it might have belonged to a medical officer, but what then of the combattant Anhalt in 4th place? Anyone have any thoughts or observations on this one?

I traded Saschaw a ribbon bar that matches one of his medal bars for this unusual little Bavarian. I think we both came out ahead on the deal.

Thanks for the help guys!

I wasn't sure whether he was hiding the Swastika on the devices by cut-and-pasting a bit of ribbon over them on the picture, so as not to have the items removed.

If you look closely at a couple of the eagles, you can see an almost circular "distortion" that that reeks of a Photoshop clone tool.

Double commemoratives? I didn't think that was allowed.

Perhaps Rick can confirm what the regs were. I know I've seen a number of bars with two of them on there, but they may not have been following regulations. If I remember correctly, the Generaloberst Otto Dessloch bar was amongst them.

well, the Hussar ribbon style? For an NCO?

Ok, the sword's don't match, but what else...?

I thought that Bavarian officers didn't get a long service decoration until they hit 25 years, and in that case wouldn't there have been a 1905 Luitpold to go with the 1911?

That particular award was continued into the Third Reich, FWIW. Note how the acorn has been replaced with a Swastika.

Hmmmm...what sort of Bavarian, ex-officer needs two of the thinner "Hussar" type ribbon bars 1935-45?

Officer? I had always assumed it was a MVK.

If these were to the same person-then i am leaning towards a senior Bavarian Reichsbahn official. No Wehrmacht Ls-state LS medal, obvious war time duties in some sort of paramilitary uniform (KVKx were awarded liberally to RAD and NSKK etc. in war zones).....hmmmm....that would lead one to conclude some sort of Chamber of Commerce award.

No, these two bars couldn't be to the same person.

I only posted one of them, but I have two identical examples of the sew on bar.

I think landsknechte is the ONLY person on Earth who has ANYTHING with the Mystery Ribbon. That's a good sign.

The first two ribbon bars, which very obviously belong to the same person and were made by the same person, came to me from two different continents. What ever it is, it was meant to be.

"No sir, you are the caretaker. You have always been the caretaker."

I'm not sure I like this bar. Our friend from Austria has similar bars, he manages also the Bavarian style.

Once I get it in hand and have a chance to really look it over, I'll post my observations. Seems like a strange ribbon to have found it's way to a fake ribbon bar. As far as I know, I own the only other two German ribbon bars in existance with that ribbon on it.

Interesting that this bar has the civil service DA, and mine has the BMVK on the Beamter ribbon. Two bars hardly makes a broad sample, but that might prove to be a clue right there.

Here's the reverse: