Swainys Boy

I have a few truncheons and tip staves from my late Fathers collection, but one particular one that I am proud to have pick up since his passing is a Christ Church of Surrey tip staff once belonging to Constable H Hunter. It is solid brass and unscrews in three places, it's weight is 333 grams and 8.5" in length. The rest of the collection is found here http://alan.swain.me.uk/truncheons.htm 

Hello Dave,

Thank you for that interesting and valuable info, the badge will go on ebay at the next £1 end of sale fees offer. Interestingly the larger badge is identical in size and shape to one of my Isle of Ely badges I wonder if the manufactures had a mould that many badges were made from with adjustments to centre coat of arms and the text around wreath.

Hi Gents...

I have these badges and a button that I'm letting go but wanted to know a little more of the rarity of such. Can anyone... Dave? Ross Mather?? shine any light on the force size etc. What sort of interest should a badge like this fetch?

Hi Dave,

Thanks for your comment.

Before I took a picture of this buckle, I had only just polished it which is why it doe's indeed look like chrome, but it is in fact white metal.

Only a short while after my original post I then thought to look at Cyril Kent Simms fine collection of belt buckles (http://alan.swain.me.uk/reference2.htm boards 53 & 57) and (http://alan.swain.me.uk/reference.htm board 34) these excellent examples in his collection gives me good insight into how police belt buckles were.

With my example, with the missing 'male' part I wonder if a 'make up' is acceptable. I have a spare white metal Grimsby Borough helmet plate centre as seen in picture, the centre part of this... centre, is exactly the size of the female part of buckle. I'm very tempted to make up something to replace what would be a very hard part to find original part If I could find a donor male part. Do you think this would look authentic if the original was to have been a coat of arms as opposed to having a crown?

My late Fathers 1951 Peterborough Combined Police helmet and a Peterborough City Police Ceremonial Police helmet.

Hi, I have a Grimsby Police Belt Buckle, but only one half of it. Can anyone throw any light on what the missing part should be like? Crown, Coat of Arms??

Another Staffordshire Police Training Photograph with Dad on the back row in the middle.

Interestingly most cap badges as well as being Staffordshire, have the Queens Crown but only three including Dads City of Peterborough cap badge, still have the old Kings Crown badges. Peterborough never had a Queens Crown cap badge.

This would date the photo to around and between 1952 to 1965 when Dads badge would have then been replaced with the Mid Anglia Constabulary badge.

Again... Names to faces anyone?

Hello Brian,

Any additions to your Staffordshire collection?

Here is an interesting Staffordshire Police Training photograph with my late father who passed away a year ago today, almost to the hour. He is seen here in the middle row, the forth from the left and has the new open neck type tunic. (PC 80 Alan E Swain) I guessed this was pre 1965 due to the City of Peterborough cap badge he is wearing.

It would be very interesting to know if any of these lads & gals are still around, and to put names to faces.

Cheers!

Laurence (Swainys Boy)

http://alan.swain.me.uk/

Thanks for your input, looks like there is to be a long wait for someone to come along, eventually. There may well be another one of these badges out there, no.2? and someone will chime in if & when they see this one.

It's funny that over the last few days I had sold a couple of Trinidad badges, Star of David types which is why I could not seem to accept that this 'chain' badge is not from there.

Hi there,

Got a badge here that's been discussed a few times among the experts but no one could throw any light on it's identification. It had been suggested that it might be a British Trinidad Constabulary badge but I'm in doubt about that, it doe's not look anything like the usual police badges anywhere in the World. The chain around the outside suggests some tram corporation. Any ideas?

Measures: 65mm wide x 52mm high. Just a little more detail here... http://alan.swain.me.uk/police-odds-ends.htm 

Thanks for your comments Brian, Dave. An electronic mail is on its way to the West Midlands Museum. I'll update when I hear from them.

Cheers
Laurence.

I also have a Birmingham Special Constables truncheon like Mervyn's on post 4, but not in such good condition. However, mine has SC 2491 stamped on the side, I guess this identifys who the truncheon belonged to. Where can I find out the name of the constable? Can anyone advise?

The great thing about this forum is the help that comes across so often. I was researching a truncheon online and found an identical one here at the beginning of this thread. Sadly learning that I have a 'fake' truncheon. :-/ I must admit though this did have a very fakeness about it. Look at the crown for instance, also the finish of item is of high gloss varnish, so wrong!

Hi Arthur,

Thanks for your input, much appreciated. I had also asked the same question on another forum that specialises in Heraldry, seems to be generating a lot of interest.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=754058.0

Hi,

I have a very nice tipstaff but no one seems to recognise the coat of Arms. Can you help?

If you like truncheons and tipstaffs, perhaps you'd like to see others... http://alan.swain.me.uk/truncheons.htm This particular tipstaff is seen itemed No:131

Hi,

I have recently bought a rather nice tipstaff and want to know of its history along with the history of its original owner. Where do I start? The only details are as follows:

Inscribed:

H. Hunter.
(Constable)
of Christ Church Surrey

It measures eight and a half inches long, weighs 333 grams. Unscrews easily both ends. Did have an original warrant inside but has long since been lost. It has a very genuine feel about it. There are no other markings anywhere along it outside or in.

A little online research reveals what could be the parish constables station, would I be right? That's about all I can come up with, can anyone give any ideas as to how I could research this more?

* Along with the picture of the Watch-House was this note: "The parish watch-house, built in 1819, stood in the churchyard until its demolition in 1932. It was a plain brick building of two storeys divided by a slightly projecting stone string course and with a simple stone cornice. The building had three bays, the centre one being slightly recessed. The two end bays had flat stone pediments. A stone tablet inscribed "ChristChurch Watch-House. MDCCCXIX," formerly over the central doorway, has been preserved and stands in the garden adjoining the present rectory."

Found this in my Dads collection. I thought it was mildly amusing and wanted to share it with you. I wonder how many people would know the various parts of a bicycle and if such would be found if lost or stolen.

Hi, Are you still wanting an impression of this type of crown? 

Crown measures 40mm top to bottom and 34mm side to side at widest part.

With this badge it looks like there was no room for the letter 'e' Was this badge recalled and replaced?

15 minutes ago, Dave Wilkinson said:

Hi Lawrence,

The "PSC" is indeed from Peterborough as you correctly say. Disappointingly, the "HSC" badge is from Hampshire. Huntingdonshire has a similar badge but with the Coat of Arms in the centre and "Huntingdonshire Special Constabulary" around the outside.

Dave.

Grrrr! back on ebay 'HSC' goes, unless anyone wants it for the price I paid?

I do have a Huntingdonshire SC but was hoping there would be a Huntingdon town version, does one exist?

Interesting reply you make Dave and begs further questions as to why did the returned inspectors badges did not have their crowns changed at the same time? probably we'll never know. Dad certainly has not got the QC City of Peterborough badge on his board as you suspect. I do know of a surviving Inspector whom I could ask although he would have loooong been pestered for his issue. 

Nice photograph indeed! Holding a Brighton Hundred staff, his pride and joy at the time.

Thanks Dave, 

It does indeed make sense to use a white tunic for traffic duties. Peterborough also had another white tunic as such which was especially for traffic duty. Seen in this picture is PC 18 Harry Perrin, although I do not have this particular tunic I do have his Summer Street patrol tunic the same as the  picture in my first posting, and would have come later.

I do wish my Dad acquired the illuminated traffic helmet, that would have been a novelty to have. Badge on this looks Kings Crown which would have come long before the Summer tunic and helmet of 1958. Tunic does looks more of a waterproof overcoat and probably shared by traffic duty officers rather than a cotton made one .

... May I say what a fantastic thread and thank you for all who have contributed so far, I have learnt MUCH!

A question arises... I have a WW2 PSC badge which is undoubtedly for Peterborough Special Constabulary. I have just bought off of ebay for a reasonable price of £10.99 an identical looking badge HSC. Am I to reliably believe that this is for Huntingdon or Huntingdonshire being the town is so close to Peterborough?

I am wondering as a matter of interest, just how many misspelt and incorrect badges there have been issued over the years. Do you have any to show or tell us about?

My two in the following photographs, shows a Kings Crown Peterborough Police officers badge with a E11R center which must be wrong.

The second badge, a star badge, is a misspelt Northam 'p' tonshire badge with a missing 'p'. The story goes that apparently a young constable got a rollicking for asking how Northamptonshire should be spelt, when found that there was a missing letter, all badges were called in... except this one!

Hi, Just joined this interesting forum and have a question to ask.

My names Laurence and I have just inherited my late fathers (Alan Swain) police collection. He was a serving officer in the Peterborough Combined Police, later Mid Anglia and Cambridgeshire Constabularies. He served from 22nd October 1951 to 31st August 1982. His remaining collection that I now have consists of painted Victorian Truncheons, Local forces badges, Cambridgeshire, Lincolnshire, Northamptonshire and Norfolk along with various helmets, uniforms, pictures, photos and paperwork etc.

It does seem that I have also inherited this collecting bug which is proving hard to shake off. The question I have is...

"Is Peterborough the only police force in the UK to have the white Tunic"? I know that other forces had white helmets as did Peterborough. The jacket itself along with two others I have, are in very good condition being made of fine heavy cotton. Buttons are removable with brass keyring type loops for ease of removal. Epalettes have the crossed keys coat of arms along with number. It seems that the labels were removed on all three jackets as they were so near to bottom front of jacket and could be seen if turned inside out. Jacket along with helmet was worn during summer of 1958 for the best part of one week according to surviving friends & family, and looked incredibly smart on the street. Hope photo is of some interest.