David Grant

1 hour ago, peter monahan said:

 

• no Indian units were sent to South Africa, at least partly because the British authorities did not want to encourage the idea that Indian soldier should shoot at white men, even if those white men were the Boer.  Memories of the Mutiny!

Not quite the full story. I think the idea that "once the Indian had tasted white man's blood........." is a fallacy. Certainly 14 years later, as Indian Nationalism was getting started, there was no such qualms. No. I think it had more to do with British ideas of Empire , muscular Christianity & the romance of soldiering that every parson, shopkeeper & landlord had been brought up with. This was their time for glory in aid of the Empire. Their time for recognitions amongst their peers. A medal to wear proudly. Even the chance of death in name of The Queen Empress. There was no room for regiments of Sikhs & Bengal Lancers & by default they were ignored. I have yet to come across the order that Indian troops were not to be used - references too but not the decision. India had been continuously at war since the 1840s & her toops were better trained, equiped & supplied than anything Britain had. The terrain of South Africa looks like a cricket pitch compared to the North West Frontier. If Britain wanted the war over by Christmas the Sikhs & Parthans would have seen to it. No this was the time for volunteers to show their metal & proove their manhood & India was not considered. Witness the "caliber " volunteer at the start of the war. A year's service, death or glory & the accolades of the newspapers, town councils, wives & girlfriends. What more could a Victorian Man want. 

Not to say that India was not vital. The Indian Ordinance Corps, in official reports, is claimed to have saved Ladysmith. Veterinary, Medical& transport units were first to arrive, quicker than England by sea. Remount stations, 600 strong arrived with frequency. Sowars arrived with parties of remounts & given special permission by Lord Roberts to remain & provided service to remount stations & veterinary hospitals

• Numbers of British officers from Indian Army units 'took long leave' and went to SA, where they often joined volunteer units.  Kipling writes a story about this. 
•  
• A number of cavalry sowars made it to South Africa with shipments of remounts, mostly Australian origin, which were trained in India and sent on.  My strong recollection is that some of them were awarded no-bar silver medals.

Most of the cavalry Regiments were ordered to provide some horses & provide sowars for transporting. The Princeley States did the same with trained Artillery Horses. I am not sure if these were originally from Australia. Certainly it was in the early stages of the war. The vast majority of sowars got the "South Africa 1902" clasp entitlement ( whether or not they recieved them )with the remount stations in Natal. Very few got none. Specifically Ward Orderlies

• Lord Roberts, 'Bobs', had two Indian orderlies who served him in SA.  

He had seven orderlies  all with the same clasps as himself. They returned with him to England where they were given tours & yes there are photos of them all - named as well.

The rolls are to be found at WO100/296,297,298

 

Sadly, without colour, which might  allow one to identify the pagri [turban] and cummberband colours, it is almost impossible  to identify individual regiments of IA cavalry once they'd all gone to the khaki kurtas.  The absence of beard only indicates that they are not Sikhs, who made up a very large percentage of the Punjab and Bengal units.  However, even they had troops and even squadrons of Hindus, Dogras and Muslims, not all of whom wore facial hair.  Some of the 'Trans-Frontier Pathan' [Afghani] recruits, for example, wore just a moustache and other castes might be clean shaven.

I had hoped that the utilitarian belt buckle might have narrowed it down. Most other lancers I have photos of have a more ornate buckle with a crest.

Thanks for giving me an excuse to babble on and go down memory lane.

No its fun. I have a letter of yours ...30 years old listing the QSAs that you have as excistant. Some are now in my collection. My list now sits at 90

David

Many thanks Bayern, Most useful. I was initially tempted towards the 1st Bombay Lancers on account of the medal ribbons - service in Dongola would have added the two Sudan Medal ribbons. I have one group, in bronze, to the 1st Bombay Lancers that includes an India Medal so not far off. Five sowars of the 1st Bombay Lancers were in South Africa in 1902, when the photo was apparently taken. This is  according to the South Africa Medal rolls and the Sudan Medal rolls.  One of whom I have the medals for - but no evidence of an India medal. Again many thanks for your input.

Hi,

The following item has appeared on ebay at https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/9-2-Cabinet-Photo-India-Indian-Army-Soldier-Uniform-Boer-War-South-Africa-Sword-/164169873800 and I was wondering if anyone could help me identify any pertinant features that might help me indentify the regiment. I take it with the chain mail epulettes, the curved sword & the lack of insigniature both men are cavalry sowars. I have been reliably told that the carbine is a  .303" Matini-Enfield Calvalry Carbine ( possibly Martini Metford ). What I do not know is if with the sword they could possibly be Indian lancers. There seems to be a row of 4 medal ribbons on the left breast of both men which is particulary perplexing. Any help would be appreciated

ATB

David

Cavalry Regiments that were present in South Africa in 1902 were

3rd Regiment of Bengal Cavalry

4th Bengal Cavalry 

5th Bengal Cavalry

6th Bengal Cavalry

3rd Queen's Own Bombay Cavalry

4th Bombay Cavalry

5th Bombay Cavalry

6th Bombay Cavalry

Queen's Own Corps of Guides

1st Punjab Cavalry

2nd Punjab Cavalry

3rd Punjab Cavalry

& 5th Punjab Cavalry

Thanks Paul.

This medal is one to covert and is not mine unfortunately. There were a few casualties amongst the IOD and this might be one. Unfortunately there are 2 Luchmans on the roll and we will never know unless a second one turns up.  A little history for you.

The transports Henzada with No.3 field medical stores depot, No.11 British field hospital, and Ordnance field park...... left Calcutta, 20th September (1899) and arrive on October 14th 1899 at Durban.
The Indian Ordnance Department consisted of 4 officers, 15 men, 3 horses and 119 attendants and had a weight of 250 tons. It was the only Indian unit to participate as a whole during the war.
The Indian Ordnance Field Park that was established outside Pietermaritzburg, played a critical role in the relief effort. The offloading of munitions arriving by train from Durban and the expeditious dispatch of orders for the Front Line were expertly and efficiently undertaken by Indian Officers and their staff. Another Indian stores camp was located outside of Ladysmith at Convent Hill. This camp came under Boer fire on occasions and several Indians were killed and injured. The siege lasted 119 days and ended in relief on 1st March 1900. The role of the Indian Ordnance Field Park during that siege was particularly noteworthy.
After the siege the Indian Ordnance Field Park returned to India. All members entitled to Defense of Ladysmith bar to the medal if issued
Medals to the Indian Ordnance Department are impressed named.

On ‎2006‎/‎02‎/‎04 at 21:15, Garth Thompson said:

Bronze issue to LASCAR LUTCHMAN INDIA ORD. DEPT.

There is a good chance this man was a casualty of the Boer War.

Luchman served with the Indian Ordnance Corps at Ladysmith as a 2^nd Class Lascar. His son, Rane Ibass, aged 10 received a pension of Rs 28.8, payable by Britain for 12 years. From the Punjab.

AG/26/11/2 (Folio 14)

WO 100/298 p 3a

Unfortunately there are two men with this name on the rolls