kimj

Mixing up victory year and revolution year How long have I been collecting now.... Guess I need to practise think before I write.

Thanks for the help Christophe.

/Kim

Voroshilov got his HSU 03.02.1956 and 22.02.1968, the HSL 07.05.1960. So he should be wearing them. But perhaps he is! His arm could be hiding the HSL. Or perhaps he just felt like being ALL army and "forgot" his labour award? Not likely. I think the hidden award theory is stronger.

/Kim

No.4 looks an awful lot like Voroshilov. If I had to bet money on it I would go for Kliment Yefremovich.

/Kim

So the Bath-guess was not that far from the truth... Thank you mr Danner for the explanation.

Odd that fakers would make a copy that does not even resemble the original

/Kim

I thought you might like it Ed

Iraqi is just a quess. The only thing I know for sure is that it's VERY crude.

Looking forward to see if you can "dig" something up about my star.

/Kim

Well it's mystery for me. Perhaps someone can help id this?

The text on the front is:

Al Sharaf

Al Akhlas

Honor

Faithful

Back:

J Sh

This could mean army. Translations are not great as they go Kurd-Arabic-Swedish-Swede-English. Some room for confusion...

The seller had a bunch of Iraqi medals. Other than that there is no information. Could it be pre-Bath or just plain fake?

/Kim

I looked at it before it sold. One thing I found surprising was the rather poor detail. But that could of course be natural. Other than that it looked naturly worn with nice patina. The engraving on the back was very eleborate but rather shallow. The repaired wing was very professionaly done, only noticable from the back. An other thing that struck me was that it was very heavy.

I might also mention that this is the first MOH I have ever seen. Perhaps not surprisingly when I collect soviet and swedish militaria...

Sorry no pics.

/Kim

I think you have might be on to something Dave. The red award card was the first version, but who got it? Any real link to the Victory Parade has yet to show up. Other than RED Square - RED award card not much is solid..

My red award card was given to a sapper in the 65th Army and is signed by P.V. Shvydkoi, head of engineer troops. The sapper was a senior sergeant and no desk jockey. He got in the army july -41 and got out october -45, a couple of bravery awards richer. Oddly enough there is no stamp on his card. It's dated 16 june 1945.

Perhaps the Victory medal was indented to be more exclusive. Only awarded to a small number of deserving heroes? 100 000 cards made and shipped to the troops in Germany?

/Kim

Selling Chrustjev's ID....

I don't like the Nevsky. Too "bubbly" and light enamel. Rivets are TOO big. Serial number is badly made. Screw post-suspicious. Etc, etc. To sum it up: I really don't like it!

/Kim

I did not like the look of it! Enamel - too light in color. Screw plate - looks like modern ones. Patina - looks weird, too black. But this could be lighting. But I am no expert in these rare early badges.

Can you make a judgement of a seller by his previous auctions? I think they can at least give a clue of what kind of seller it is. Take a look at his auction: 6573063134 . It's a Red Banner of Labour of Trans-Caucasian SFSR. Statistics: 144 awarded and 9 in museums in former SSSR (source: Orders of Soviet Republics). It's priced at 5000$ in AVERS 6 (!!!). His sold for 820$. It looks nothing like the ones I have photos of. I believe it's a fake. But then again I am no expert in the orders of Soviet Republics.

I don't think you missed much Rick.

/Kim

I don't know why I wrote 147... But when I try to remember I think the neigbour's dog told me to do it...

Very nice file I wonder how many files were kept for each individual? When I have sorted threw files from the 40s here in Sweden about Soviet internees I found they had 3 files each! I don?t know if Swedish paper pushers are more bureaucratic than Russian ones. But one main file and several lower level files would perhaps be realistic.

A list of HSU would be a possibillity explaining the numbers. But that list would have been constantly updated when new HSU were added -> changing the numbers. The BIG list would of course be the red book but it was completed before the break up and the very last heroes.

/Kim

It's not the gold star serial number. I have the book with serial numbers and names etc. No 7804 don't match with Paramonov. Also the name in the big red book list ALL the heroes, even those who got it postumous. They never got a gold star.

The number 147 with pencil is no mystery. That is my own "code" to keep track of my photo collection...

Interesting that a file has three photos. That would mean a third Paramonov is out there somewhere... It also makes me a bit sad that the file got slaugthered.

/Kim

You're welcome Gerd.

/Kim

Here is Parovatkin. None of the photos are used in the big red book.

Here is my Paramonov. As seen exactly like yours (except for the dark scan. But I blame my scanner for that...). Even the hand writing is the same.

When I checked with my other HSU photos I found a couple with the same blue number written on them (7804 for Paramonov). I found a close one in 7808, D.N. Parovatkin. The info on the bak of Parovatkin does not match Paramonov. BUT the blue number is in the same blue style of hand writing! Another ting they have in common are traces from being glued, uper part of back of the photo.

Awhile ago I borrowed the big red HSU two volume book from a library here. When I checked the info of the two gentlemen I found something interesting. They have three heroes between them! This matches the numbers 7804 and 7808! Could this mean that the number has something to do with number of HSU or even the book??

/Kim

Nice Korean collection....

I had a feeling of D?j? vu when I looked at this thread. Comrade Paramonov looked awfull familiar. So I had to check my HSU photos. Sure, there he was. Same picture, same handwriting and even the same number 7804 written on it!

Is it coinsidence or are some HSU more common than others? Where do the photos come from?

/Kim

I have an interest in North Korean awards with a enormous colletion of three orders... Anyway, I have a friend from South Korea visiting. So I shamelessly asked her to translate Gerd's document.

North Korean document structure is:

Name

Date of Birth

Place of Birth

Place of living(?)

Occupation

This gives us:

His name is Sung il, Lee

He was born and grew up in the same place, Chunsan-lee, Euju-Gun, PyeongAnBukDo.

He is not a kind of soldier but a farmer.

But it does not explain why it looks like it was altered. Perhaps it was safer to be a "farmer" when you sell your documents..

Also the award was given on the day Koreans celebrate liberation from the Japanese, 15 Aug.. So it could have something to do with the 40 year jubilee.

/Kim

The "Swedish" MoH has sold for 44000sek , about 5430usd. Add to this the auction house commission.

Well.... at least I got to see it...

/Kim

I will go to see it in person. So I promise to post what the hammer price will be. One thing for sure is that it won't go home with me

/Kim

Very nice MOH! Swedish recipients Of the MOH are easily counted. If only I had that kind of cash...

Estimated price has always been very low at Probus auction house. Other orders on the list have very low estimate too. But in the end, when the hammer drops, the price is very much market price. It's a way to draw people to the auction...

As for the catalouge. I hope that this is, as they say on their site, only a preview. The older online auction catalouges have very nice pictures in them.

/Kim

Very interessting post Ed!

I checked with the libraries here in Sweden to see if they had "Vedomosti verkhovnogo soveta". They do, but only from 1943-1991. I guess this is good news if I ever get a order awarded after 1943... Do you know if later issued order lists were published in the same way as early ones? I suspect that it changed as the award system changed. In the 30s an order of the Badge of Honor was something, not so much in the 80s...

/Kim

Very nice Red Banner!

It's not that common to see one with as good enamel as this one. For some reason this type of RB often have enamel chipping. I have one that looks as if it got a good beating and lost all enamel. He recipient then got it re-enameled. Later it got another beating and lost some of the replaced enamel. Now it looks rather worn.

/Kim

Nice Stalin badge Chris!

I have a photo of one in wear."My" guy has his badge on his uniform with a bravery and Leningrad medal. No name but probably made in Leningrad.

I have heard this badge being described as a political badge. But some say, as the dealer in NJ, that this is a "Udarnik" badge. Who knows for sure?

/Kim

ORB are 201 954 and 532 230. The screw could be from a badge, it's not silver. The "conversion" was not made at the mint, probably at a shop of some sort. My guess is that he slaughtered some kind of badge and used the parts, the plate and screw, to make a screw back Red Banner. Maybe he like that look better when he had few awards. When he got more medals he went with the "bar-look". If this is a bar for one guy...

By 1958 you mean: Red Army 40 years?

Yes, the 15 year service medal is in the wrong place. But perhaps there was a second bar with jubilee, Red Army and Revolution medals etc.. And maybe he more proud of 15 years of service than of birthday medals?

But I have a feeling that something is sligthly wrong with it.

Here is a hero that also liked his awards better as screw backs.

/Kim