armybrat43

Great collection!! very nice. and my wife thought I had a lot of stuff!!

the 1939 splange you see in the close up of the police bayonet is a reprodution. I try to collect only original items but sometimes people give me reproductions. Here is one more pic of my Krim shield the back is kinda rusty but I think it is still a nice piece.

And here is a close up of the police dress bayonet and scabbard. My wife gave me this beauty for a christmas gift. I have more militaria including som russian WW2 items. If anyone is interested I will post more items in my collection.

Here is some of my WW2 german medals and such

here is a close of shultz's belt and ammo pouches. He is also wearing a bayonet but I did not get a pic of it.

a full shot of shultz, as I stated before the tunic is a repro, the gear is all original

The kriegs flag is also a vet pick up

some field gear

Here are some of my WW2 german militaria items I have collected over the years. All original items except the tunic shultz is wearing and the 1939 iron cross splange The luger. P-38. and K98K are vet bring backs. The holster for the luger is on loan so it is not pictured.

I have learned a good deal concerning german armbands. And from what I have learned so far is that they are faked very easy. Where would a good online site be to purchase a party armband at? I'am really not wanting to collect armbands but would like a good original one for my collection and militaria display.

The stamps were placed by the issuing authority (unit).....not the maker. They had to be visible, so they should always appear on the outside. Some armbands were issued for events, and the issuing stamp would tally with the bearer's ID. It was a bit like German car number plates, with the State logo.

Not all armbands were stamped, of course. In fact, most were not.

Thank you for the information concerning the stamp. so a unit would place the order for the armbands. Then after recieveing them would sometimes stamp them with thier unit stamp. So if a certain unit, be it SS, luftwaffe, medical, etc.. would have a personal stamp assigned to them with unit designation. Would these stamps somtimes also include the unit location? And would armbands issued earlier, such as pre WW2 bands be more likely to be stamped then later war year bands? Or did it mainly depend on who was issuing the armbands? I never realized how complex these armabnds were.

Sorry, but in my opinion the armband at the top of this thread is a poor fake...........either totally repro or an original printed NSDAP armband tarted up to look like SS.

The borders are wrong and the Ortsgruppe validation stamp on the back is in the wrong place and completely unconnected to the SS.

Thanks for the information on the armband and no apologies needed, I have a question concerning the stamp placement. Were there certian regulation requirement for the placing of stanps on armbands? Or was this more or less left up to the manufactuerer of the armband as to the placing of the stamp? Thanks

Kevin and Deva

No problem, just wanted to make myself clear on my intentions. And what I meant by "clearly shows it as a SS armband" in the beginning of my post, were the two black stripes on the top and bottom of the band. Also, the stamp being a forgery, on what other items has this stamp been found? That way I can keep a eye out for it and others who read this thread might also, thanks

That book is a good book, but it is also over 20 years old and is very general in nature. The author, Robin Lumsden, is a member of this forum. I have that book and about 12 others devoted to SS cloth.

For some reason, it looks like there are no SS cloth collectors reading this forum. You might want to contact him (his ID = "Robin Lumsden") and point him to this thread and get his opinion. I see he has posted in the SS awards forum a few rows down.

The world of SS cloth is the biggest minefield there is. You need to get at least 12 books and study for several years. Then you should assume everything is fake until proven genuine. Otherwise, you are going to be out a lot of money.

This looks like something made for a movie or theater. There are a lot better fakes on the market right now.

That's great! I have several of his books, great information and even better seeing how he visits the forum.. As far as the armband goes, I really didn't pay much for it, came with some other items I traded for. And I do not collect SS militaria due to my Opa. He was in the war and was a german soldier and he did not approve of the SS due to what they stood for. Frankly if he were alive and knew I had this armband I don't think he would approve. He was one of the reasons I started into collecting WW2 militaria. I mainly posted it to get others input on the item. I learn a great deal by doing this. And I hope it helps others also to learn. I noticed that there are a lot of people viewing these topics, so maybe they can get helpful info from them. And add thier opinions about it also. As far as the armband goes, I will not keep it in my collection.

Kev In Deva

Thank you for your input but to reply to your comments above. I stated which book I had found some info on this armband. I don't see were I made any direct quote just a quick overview from what I had read. I'm not here to trick anyone. Also I don't see where I stated that this armband looked anything like the one pictured in the book Also I don't recall typing anything about the book having anything about the stamp on the armband. Also I never stated that this was a "orignal late war SS armband". I wasn't sure what organization it belonged to. This is one reason why I posted it here on this forum to learn about the armband and hear others opinions on the subject If you read my first post, I asked for other opinions. Also I do not claim to be a expert on these types of things. Also, seeing how there are many collectors out there. I assumed that many would have this book as well as many other books to refer to and get the "direct quote" if they cared to. And here is a picture of the stamp up close. I turned the armband inside out and darkened the picture some to get a clearer outline.

Also kind of off topic but I posted a WW2 EKI I wasn't sure of and had picked up in a trade. I didn't know a lot about the cross so I posted it here. The first opinion on the cross was that it was fake so I assumed it was Then the last opinion was that it was a original in rough shape. At any rate, I learned a great deal about iron crosses from that posting.

How did you determine this is a politcal armband? The black stripes were reserved for the SS. And this dosn't look like any SS armband I have ever seen.

I have to make a correction on the armband. Most of my information I have obtained from other websites. I picked up a book yesterday called "Detecting The Fakes" by Robert Lumsden. The book clearly shows this armband as a SS armband. The book states on page 125 that armbands sizes colors and lettering differed considerably. Some were hand made some machined made on cotton, wool or linen. And that silk screen printing on cotton or linen were widely used. The book also states on page 126 that fakes were commonly made of thick felt were commonly backed or unbacked with thick modern red paper fibre. The swastikas are typical machine embroidered as one piece with a wide border of synthetic thread. And that printed fakes are also circulated on canvas rahter then the correct wool,cotton, or linen. The armband I have pictured is clearly made of linen, does not have synthetic thread, And has the correct stamp. But seeing how there were so many variations of armbands, I guess even authors of books could be wrong sometimes. And from what I have found so far in my opinion this website is the best WW2 militaria forum out there on the web .

I don't know from SS but even in the photo the stamp looks awfully crisp and dark for 65 year old ink.

I did some research on the armband. It is not SS but a political armband. These armbands were later made of linen and were printed onto the linen. The stamp is legit, I darken the picture in order for the stamp to show more clearly. And I did a burn test on a piece of the thread and it passed as far as not being made of a polyester.

This is without doubt a fake. There were two makers, Wittmann , & Hoffst?tter, Bonn. Both badges are identical, so it is possible that the badge was produced by one maker, and then supplied to both firms for sale.

Takn you for the feedback about the badge.

I'm sorry but I would not be happy with this in my collection. It does not match any of the accepted designs of this badge. There may have been two makers, Wittmann as you mentioned, & Hoffst?tter, Bonn.

Both makers designs are very similar, the crossed skis & Edelweis are made in one piece, not riveted together as this one is. Also, the H.J. rhombus should be enamelled not painted (remember this was pre war & intended as an award for leaders or instructors). Also, there should be two sets of attaching pins not one.

Sorry,

Don

thanks for the info and no need to be sorry, didn't pay anything for the badge. And I really don't care much for it. (i collect Army items). And i don't display it with my other militaria. I figured I would post a few pics and get some feedback on it.

close up of emblem

pic of the back

This a a badge that was issued only for a linited time before being replaced. According to Robin Lumsden's book "Medals and Decorations of Hitler's Germany" This was a qualification badge for ski instructors and was one of the largest youth awards. And that there was only one maufacturer of this award "Wittman of Munich" Mr. Lumsden claims that this badge was more then likely withdrawn shortly after it's introduction seeing as there have been no known photographs of it being worn. And that is was more then likely replaced by the " HJ Scbiwart cuff title" which was authorized for wear by those supervising Hitler youth sking courses.

The badge pictured has some damage to several of the Edelwiess flowers tips. And the center rivet is lslightly loose that holds the emblem and flower in place. I feel that this award is original, and was wondering what others might think of it. My wife likes the badge I think it is kind of on the ugly side.

I'm totally agreed with Dond that anything needs that much time for

explaining is absolutely not worth to keeping it.

Plus, its a deformed piece anyway.

It has no business for being in your collection cabinet!

regards

Bishop

I agree, the EK1 was sent back this morning. I have leraned a great deal about EKs since posting this thread. Thanks to everyone who posted, this is a great site for collecting information.

No expert - but the EK1 looks to be something that was repaired in the past, but was made from original parts at least. The appearance of paint in the inner rim of the beading suggest that the core was repainted at one point when it was whole at one time. The EK's look OK to me - but the packet and the Spange are something I would avoid. But - if it was your wife that went and got them for you - remember she is probably not an expert and its not often that they go out ther and look for stuff for you. If it were my house - I would keep them as it would remind me that I have a wife who tries to get me something that is important to me. Even if cast copies - I would porbably frame them and put them on the wall for all to see - that I have a loving wife who supports my hobby.

Put it in perspective - when was the last itme you knew what type of sewing machine or kitchen gadget to get for her? She smiles on Christmas day and says thanks doesnt she?

You are very correct, she is one of a kind. And to be honest with you, she is the one who wants to send the items back if they are not correct due to the seller selling them as originals. (She also collects but not militaria) RS Prussian porcelin and antiques. She does not like to be taken advantage of, she will only buy from dealers who will stand behind thier items. Also I would never give her a gift such as a kitchen gadget or a sewing machine. Every year she gives me as gifts a few pieces of militaria.

Any item that needs this much explaining is not for my collection. Send then back.

JMHO

Yes you are correct, but I figured I would use this as a learning tool for myself and others before it goes back tomorrow.

here is the front at a angle