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Posts posted by Yankee
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Brian,
It's very easy to list the amount of Austrians who received this cross:
The Silver Merit Cross was reserved for Danes only (unless you were Royalty related to the King...)
/Mike
Hi Mike
Glade to have asked that question, very good info to have. Super job in explaining the ribbons to us , my Dannebrog knight is placed on a straight ribbon and always assumed it was to a foreigner. I'll send a scan later this evening on the Dannebrog thread not to go
Sincerely
Brian
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Reverse
Hi Mark
Nice job to find one with an Austrian ribbon . I have never seen an Austrian style mounted ribbon on a Danish decoration. You might just have chance to trace down the recipient, can't imagine to many Austrians receivng the Silver Merit Cross. Perhaps Mike can get you a name. Hold that ribbon!!!!!!
Sincerely
Brian
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Hallo Yankee ,
Stunning bar, congratulations on obtaining it Interesting to see the Romanian Medal, although I have been told that these were issue for the Civil Service, something that has to be checked out, perhaps Carol I can fill us in on that particular item.
As far as I know it came in two class Ist in Gold, IInd in Silver.
Kevin in Deva.
Hi Kevin
Too bad we can't put a name to the bar certainly served Prince Alexander in what exact capacity remains to be a mystery, certainly a man with a taste of adventure. The Rumanian medal was for faithful service 2nd class 1st type most likely for a State Visit as had been suggested
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Hey Brian,
Ok.... just to be clear.. the one I pictured.. would be the Knight 1st class... which is what Nyholm was awarded (just want to clarify this before I buy it).
Thanks !
Mark
Mark the one pictured would have been identical to the one Nyholm was awarded. Early ones have a hinged crown. No problem always good to double check.
Sincerely
Brian
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Hi Mark
In the Sword the knight is the officer class of the order. There is a silver meit cross and a sword medal which is fairly more rare.
The knight will have enamel on the arms so you are correct. I have an early one with a rosette which would make officer class too.
Sincerely
Brian
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Hey Guys,
Just want to confirm that the Sword order is the Knight class with enamel and not the lower grade....
Cheers
Mark
Hi Mark
In the Sword the knight is the officer class of the order. There is a silver meit cross and a sword medal which is fairly more rare.
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Maybe the very early Golden Lion Knight's had a more circular center.0
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They (both 3rd and 4th Class are supposed to be oval (no photo's to show alas, just what I know from the Statuten).....so I guess it is another box?
The case at one time belonged to Eric Ludvigsen and believed to have been for the Golden Lion or Wilhelm Order.
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Wow that is really great info, must have one fantastic research library Thanks Dave
Later came across the case to the Wilhelm Knight and to my surprise it is not a solid fit or even close . I closely examined the case to make sure it was for the Wilhelm order. The shape ( arms ) is correct, inner silk pad has the impression of the order and the Lion standing on two legs. Where the trouble is that every Wilhelm I have ever seen has always a oval center, the inside of the case is made for a circular center. Does any member have a foto of this variation to post or can explain.
Sincerely
Yankee
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And why is a NEW YORK institution "de-accessioning" (I that euphemism for "we're cashing in on your 'permanent' donations") to a BRITISH auction house?
Are there no auctioneers in The Big Apple?
Can it be
SHAME
????
Certainly agree, all the good people would be horrified to learn that their donations can no longer be viewed by the public, in hindsight would have been better for the owners to leave their collections to family, big big mistake now. I for one always enjoyed visiting the ANS and view their amazing collection now no longer possible . Tons of auction houses in NYC, I feel collections large or small if formed in the States should be sold in the States. In the past had good experiences with MortonandEden ( quick to reply ) more then I can say for some of the other foreign auction houses.
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Hey Guys,
Wow.. ok..I step away for a couple of meetings and this thread had a ton of activitiy.....
Ok.. first....... Mike, my thoughts on the size of the medal bars was just a guess..... and since I don't have any to measure the pins and your 6 banger was 15cm... it only made sense about the 3 medal bar being 8cm.
Ok.. I have asked for better pics (front and back)....
It was my option that the swords for the Oldenburg did not come into existance until 1914 (could be wrong) so if that is the case.. his would be without swords.
Cheers
Mark
Hi Mark
Do not know when the swords came into play however the officer class was created in 1903. There is also swords above the cross as well . There is even a class with swords and a laurel wreath . You could ask a memeber from the German States forum I'm sure somebody can answer you correctly.
Sincerely
Brian
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Czar Nicolaus II Dannebrog Silver Merit Cross was the Christian IX version (awarded 11. Sept. 1891)
/Mike
That is really great , I had it narrowed down to 3 cyphers. Mark yours could be the Czars own
Does anybody know what happened to Czar Nickolas's bar?
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Allow me to correct you:
Czar Nicolaus II is always wearing his Dannebrog Silver Merit Cross (he was also Knight of the Order of the Elephant and Grand Commander of the Order of Dannebrog). Grand Commander is a special class reserved for royalty.
/Mike
[/quote
Mike thanks for correcting me, thinking it might have been the Silver Cross since he already would have recived the GC of Dannebrog but being czar he could wear what he likes as another member pointed that out. Interesting to know which cypher he had.
Sincerely
Brian
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Hi Mike
It is an award document for an officer cross but there is no way of telling if this is the cross that accompanied the document. Mark request a scan of the reverse if you decide to bid on it.
Sincerely
Brian
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Mike found it0
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Zeige has an Oldenburg Offizierskreuz (lot 8) in the forthcoming auction on May, 26th, but it seems to be connected to the award document in lot 9 (or am I wrong in my assumption here?) and it would be a real shame to split them.
There is also an Offizierskreuz with swords in lot 78.
Next big question: Was Nyholm awarded the version with or without swords?
/Mike
Lot 8 and 78:
Mike in Zeige's Table of Content where is lot 8 & 9 located?
Best to request a scan of the reverse that will tell us a lot.
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Brian,
No Silver Merit Cross I have seen has been marked and only some Knight Crosses. Most (all?) Commander badges are marked - at least the gold ones.
Mark,
Well, your guess is as good as mine (yours is probably better when it comes to uniforms... ), but your suggestion seems plausible.
/Mike
Thanks for that Mike, next one to come across will not think twice and jump on it. Now that I think about it have not seen all that many around. Interesting to note Czar Nicholas ll is always wearing a Dannebrog Knight.
Sincerely
Brian
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Hi Dave
That is a great surprise, amazed to see the award list from a newspaper I think and in such fine condition after all these years. Thanks ever so much for the time in locating his awards really great marvel to see. Ohhh gosh misread his Prussian award thanks for bringing that to my attention.
Sincerely
Brian
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Hey Guys,
Well... the Silver Merit Cross in on it's way.. thanks for the thoughts on the value.....
I have found a few of the others.. but they seem kind of common so I might wait to see what comes up.... The Griffen is about $500.... The oldenburg... might be $1200 (I have a line on one but I think there is enamel damage)... I have yet to find a St. Anne........ The Sword I found for around $600 (gold).... The Italian Crown is everywhere so that's not a problem.... I Vasa is around.. and the going rate seems to be about $1000 (gold)..... I really hope that the Orange Nassu can be without swords.. as with swords will be very tough I'm afraid (I posted in another link.. but no replies yet).....
Mike,
With the two sets of loops... would it be safe to say that the top set (8 cm) would be for 3 medals and the bottom set (5.5cm) would be for 2 medals ?
Cheers
Mark
Hi Mark
Your Silver Merit Cross looks great, looks to be on a Austrian style trifold ribbon. Send a larger scan if you can. Oldenburg you need to examine very carefully the pinbacks & stars are copied widely. Thanks
Sincerely
Brian
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Hi guys
Fascinating the Statutes on return for the Dannebrog go back to 1671. Your Silver Merit cross is well made, were they marked? Interesting to note in the knight class, that I have it is profusely hallmarked and earlier ones are not marked.
Ahhh the prices can fluctuate greatly on the same item Mark. Our hobby ( orders & decorations ) is based on the euro that is on the European side of it. Euro is up 50% these past few years partially the reason for the steep dollar quotes. I Agree with Mike 550 dollars ( 380 Euro ) is a good price for a early Dannebrog Silver Merit Cross. I purchased my Danish a few years back so I don't know the current prices. You can find a Frederik Vlll but it will take some time. I know the Frederik Vlll knights can be found but I think the Silver Merit Cross are more rare. What is a pleasure in collecting the Danish Dannebrog order is that you need not worry about fakes unlike the Russian material. Be very careful in the Russian orders there making excellent copies even in the lower classes in gold. The prices I noticed recently are insane. In the Probus auction the knights from the late 19th- 20th century fetching 2000-3000 dollars. In the auction there was a ( first time for me to have seen one up for sale ) very early 1800-1810 Swedish Sword knight that went for 700 dollars go figure something so rare goes for so little and something so common to the roof. Oldenburg State is heavily copied in some classes, Griffin far as I know no problems. Legion of Honor 3rd Republic are common prices 400-1000 dollars depending if silver gilt or gold. Italian Crown commander gold 300 dollars & Swedish Vasa commander 700-1000 dollars.
Hope it helps.
Sincerely
Brian
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Hi Mike
Interesting to learn that the Dannebrog Silver Merit Cross would be returned upon death to the State and the Royal Cypher would be swaped out. Was this done for economic reasons? The Merit Cross as I can see looks like it has not changed in almost 200 years. Is there any way to tell an early cross from a later strike if the cyphers have been changed? With the Order itself there are certain characteristics of the early types such as a concave shape and the crowns between the arms are wider. I have never seen a Frederik Vl or Christian Vlll cross with a later cypher I suppose that would be a highly sought after piece or is it just very few were ever issued back in the early 19th century.
Hi Mark
There is a dealer in denmark that specializes in Danish with good selection of higher classes, check out his site www.medals.dk
Sincerely
Brian
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Danish General Anders Gjedde Nyholm
in Northern European & Baltic States
Posted
Dannebrog knight, what are the other three medals on the trifold ribbon? Danish?