Veljko

Well i couldnt resist not to correct history unjustice and make small improvements.... I am sure that now this painting is finally finish according to Grigorii Ivanovich Samoilov real will,  which is to give tribute to his ancestors, family and great heroes of  Russian Imperial White army. No more dilemmas.

Артист: Григории Иванович Самоилов

hi egorka, you are right very interesting, i looked hat closely, looks like star by shape  but its not, also its not washed, inscription with pencil is in serbian and it says " to Mile (name) for the memory on , than lower i cant read exactly because of border of frame but it looks like war (рат- serbian воина). I would say dthat all this togethwr with budoni march is some later inscription. I will open frame and see more exactly. Pls could you try to read on wikipedia about grigorije samojlov. He was cosack, emigrant, finished architecture, in ww2 as member of Yugoslavian royalist army in german camp, than he returned to yugoslavia. Before ww2 he made projected russian emigrants chapel , than projected several churches even in camp he made church with ikonostas which is now protected by unesco. I doubt that this work is some cosack before ww2, but  when  he returned he was maybe afraid of communists and added this lebedev kumach text, and inscription in serbian with pencil!? Really strange. Maybe pencil inscription is not his. Later when ww2 finished he started to work on руски дом , in cimmunist period soviet cultural centre and he was the author of soviet amblem which is put in communist period. Also after ww2 he continued to work on big projects , like building of techincal faculties etc. He was clearly anti comunist but after ww2 he started to cooperate and he lived in yugoslavia without problems ( contrary to many other russian emigrants). I ll open the frame and tell you tomorrow whats the exact pencil inscription. But everything is very strange, best

https://sr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Григорије_Самојлов

born in Tangarog in rich cosack family on the coast of Azov see

I found interesting aquarelle from done by Russian emigrant Grigoriy Ivanovic Samoylov, who lived in Kingdom Yugoslavia after revolution. It shows cossack in uniform on horse. Does anyone recognise uniform and polk which uniform belongs? Is this scene from the revolution, ww1 or earlier? Any info would be welcome

Артист: Григории Иванович Самоилов

Thx!

Thx for help, i will exchange montenegrin heroism with silver bravery medal 85, when you have time pls post photo of general Franasovic, would be nice to see his bar and orders which he get.

Best

Yes regarding medal for geroism you could be right, and also might have logic to put instead montenegrin heroism  (kolajna) silver bravery 85-86, it will look aligned and it has suspended ring. Idea to put montenegrin medal for heroism i took actually from the bar presented in Muhic/Car book, which you mentioned. But my biggest dilema are positions 3),4),5). Look at the hight of the loops (zakacaljjki) and allignment in this option. It doesnt look well.

That was the reason why i am sure that on position 3) is takovo5th, position 4) golden bravery and position 5) despite ita not according to rules (should be on the end of the bar) i choose red cross

Regarding medal of king peter, also what tells me that maybe this is not option is the period of the active service of that officer, it would mean that he was active for  over 40 yrs of service, maybe too long period 

Since you mentioned general Dragutin Franasovic, see this one and btw do you have his original photo?

And this

regarding barbi absolutely agree with you about regulations you mentioned and how they didnt stick to them, but when you put as you mentioned silver serbian bravery - kolajna then you dont have line below, hope you understand what i mean, which is also showing sime kind of correctness of order of medals and orders .

Could you please post a photo and bar od General D Franasovic?

Look at this option

21 minutes ago, paja said:

Greetings,
Very impressive medal bar, I think I've seen it before online. 
You probably nailed most of the decorations, here's my opinion:
1) White Eagle V not IV
2) Most likely Takovo IV with swords, but I wouldn't completely exclude Legion of Honor or some other foreign decoration. 
3) Perhaps Takovo IV, if so then:
4) Takovo V and
5) Golden Bravery Medal from 1877
6) Montenegrin Silver Bravery Medal
7) Silver Bravery Medal (1876, 1877-78 or 1885-86?)
8) Petar I Coronation Medal? 
The rest is clear...

Thx Pajo,

1) and 2) i agree with you, postiton 3 and 4 with takovo crosses 4 and 5 are a bit too much , together with takovo cross with swords would result in 3 takovo crosses on bar. Not many seen like that, maybe on positions 3), 4), 5) are: takovo cross 5th, golden bravery 77, red cross of prinicality serbia ( same ribbon as prevoous two). On the position 7) after montenegrin bravery medal can not go serbian silver bravery 76,77-78, based on rules, this one should go after golden bravery 77, but in any case before foreign - montenegrin bravery medal. Regarding position 8) rule and order was to put it immediately after the orders so not likely from my opininon, but i was also thinking about that option too

And with montenegrin medals

What is the order/medal on position 5 from left? Are the positions 6 and 7 from left for montenegrin medals as i put on photos? If not, what should go on positions 6 and 7? 

Here is an interested bar, unfortunatelly found without orders. Obviousely it belonged to highest ranked officer, i am trying to reconstruct it for a while, but i am not sure of combination of orders and medals. We can try to do it together. For those medals and orders which are attached on the bar on this picture i am pretty much sure that itbis correct.

The order of orders and medals which i guess its correct, from left to right:

1) white eagle order 4or 5 class with monogram- obrenovic period

2) unkown - but i guess takovo cross order with swords 4th class

3)takovo cross 5th class

4) unknown- but i guess golden bravery medal from 1877

5) unkown - 

6) unkown - possibly montenegro silver medal for bravery or medal of proclamation of kingdom 1882 ( less probably)

7) umkown - possibly montenegro medal for courage 1862

8) medal on entering constitution in force 1894

9) military virtues 

10) medal for turkish wars 1876-78

11) medal for serbian bulgarian war 1885

Really thx a lot grey!

4 hours ago, Veljko said:

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_von_Knobelsdorff_(General,_1826)

About general major Wilhelm von Knobelsdorff , mentioned also battle of SOOR

 

 

8 hours ago, GreyC said:

Hi there,

here is the translation which makes this an interesting piece:

On the 28th June 1866 during the battle of Soor, Wilhelm von Knobelsdorff , after being wounded, took this Austrian medal of bravery off the chest of  a killed, totally dismembered Austrian officer. (Wilhelm= later GenMaj. z.D.; Oberhauptmann)

GreyC

Grey would it be too much if i ask you to write me exact text written on the ribbon on german, original? Please!

https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wilhelm_von_Knobelsdorff_(General,_1826)

About general major Wilhelm von Knobelsdorff , mentioned also battle of SOOR

Grey thx a lot, wow this is really interesting text, thx a lot once again

Dear friend, here is austrian bravery medal, der tapferkeit, i would say second model from period 1859-1866, 1st class, (40mm), silver, with original patina and original ribbon. On ribbon is attached small text, i guess on awarding, date is visible 28.6.1866, but other text i cant understand. What do you think about it? Could someone maybe read text on ribbon? What do you think on her value?

thx,

veljko

Thx a lot!

One more :-) what so you think is value of original soldiers cros, app?

Igor thx , i am sure about 1st one that is original, could you identified period of awarding based on numeration?

Thx for help, both od you!

Dear friends could someone help me to identify the period of awarding and potential value of the crosses below,

thx

I bought it in this lot which makes it possibly interesting, der tapferkeit from austrian prussian war 1866, with inscription attached to ribbon on awarding, this strange prussian cross and imperial russian cross of st george

Serbian order of takovo cross producer vinc mayer 1878

Serbian order of takovo cross producer vinc meyer 1877

Previous i attached photos of same wappen eagle on cannon

Thx i agree with you both, this was my idea immediately, but not to fall into mistake lets pass through its parts. Does anyone is familiar with hallmark? Halfmoon (with crown) was official sign for silver after 1886. Does anyone recognise who is on the heads? Who's this wappen is, prussia? And on the end does anyone saw any similar prussian order? Somehow, by feeling it doesnt looks me like ordinary part of jewellry. In the former times esp 18th and beging of 19th century, orders were done also in such way with filigree, i remeber some russian orders done in filigree....

More about size dia-72mm

Dear friends, i would need your help, recently i bought interesting sign, possibly order, i think its prussian, diameter 72mm, made of silver and on reverse hallmark halfmoon and inscription DIE CR or DIN CR not sure. Please have a look and tell me what do you think, thx

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