NavalMark

On the right Geissler as an Admrial on an oil painting from Heinrich Hellhoff, i have one more pic i will post later ...... for me no doubt, it is Geissler.

Regards

Markus

See here my short story about hawaian orders to german naval officers .... Fonseca-Wollheim is wearing the same clasp on the ribbon.

http://sammlergemeinschaft-deutscherauszeichnungen.org/wbb4/thread.php?threadid=10939&hilight=Kalakaua

Sorry, its in german

I have compared the pic with the pics in "Die deutschen Admirale" and i think it is Geissler, not wearing his chinese and russian commanders crosses.

Regards

Navalmark

....units with the number of meeting, struggle, battle .......

please excuse my pigeon-english.

The "Gefechtskalender" is a publication of the Kriegsministerium with at least 215 pages.

It is divided in three parts:

1.) All meetings, struggles, battles ... are listed in chronological order and beside every unit which took part, from company level upwards, is mentioned. The meetings, struggles, battles ........ are numbered from 1 up to 803.

2.)All locations, where a meeting, struggle, battle ..... happended are listed in alphabetical order with the number they got in part 1

3.)All prussian, bavarian and other troops are listed with all the numbers of occasion in which they took part.

Rick, if you send me an adress via PM or email i will make you a paper-copy of this reference.

Regards

NavalMark

You know the "Gefechtskalender des deutsch-französischen Krieges 1870-71" herausgegeben vom Großen Generalstab, Abteilung für Kriegsgeschichte, Berlin 1886?

Regards

NavalMark

Nice pair,

clear anchor - could it also be a Bootsmann(Wehrersatzwesen) ? Personal of Wehrersatzwesen also wore clear anchors on sleeve and shoulderboards...

Regards

Markus

Some additional informations.

He entered service in the imperial german navy on April 13th 1888.

He became Kapitän z.S. on April 25th 1912.

So he was a very young Kapitän z.S. (aged between 50-55 years) but the entry in Rangliste 1912 is his last. His command is "zur Verfügung des Stationschefs" and he received the RAO3mSchl in July 1913 as "ausser Dienst". He was not reactivated in World War I. I guess he had problems with his health after nearly 14 years in sea. The RAO3mSchl was the usual "good-by-gift" for an Oberst or KzS in Prussia.

Only his other pre-war awards published in the Marineverordnungsblatt.

Regards

Markus

Schmaltz Norw. O.v.Hlg.Olaf, Ritterkreuz 1. Kl. Kapitänleutnant 1902, 01.11. HELA, 1. Offizier

Schmaltz Pr. RAO 4. Kl. Korvettenkapitän 1907, 09.07. ZIETEN, Kmdt.

Schmaltz NL O. v. O.-Nassau, Kommandeurkreuz Korvettenkapitän 1908, 10.13. ohne weitere Angaben

Schmaltz Pr. Kronen-O. 3. Kl. Fregattenkapitän 1912, 01.21. III. Matr. Art. Abt., Kmdr.

Schmaltz Pr. RAO 3. Kl. m. Schleife Kapitän zur See a.D. 1913, 07.15.

I am a little confused, 1887 or 1897 ?

Of cause not Gülich, he did not have the Iron Cross 1870. There were only 8 or 9 naval officers who got the EK II 1870, i think this is a former army soldier in diplomatic service.

Regards

Markus

In the german Marineverordnungsblatt only one awarded to german naval officers is published, Korvettenkapitän Gülich, at the german embassy in that time, i think the Marineattacheé.

Gülich Allerhöchste Belobigung Kadett 1872, 07.29. Prüfung zum Seekadett mit SEHR GUT

Gülich Pr. Dienstauszeichnungskreuz XXV Kapitänleutnant 1889, 05.28.

Gülich Pr. RAO 4. Kl. Kapitänleutnant 1889, 06.19.

Gülich Zans. O. d. str. Sterns 2. Kl. 3. St. Kapitänleutnant 1889, 08.27.

Gülich Pr. Kronen-O. 3. Kl. Korvettenkapitän 1895, 08.10. kommandiert bei der Botschaft in London

Gülich GB Erinn.Med. 60j. Jub. Queen Victoria Korvettenkapitän 1897, 07.31.

Gülich DR Chinadenkmünze für Kämpfer Kapitän zur See 1901, 05.10.S KAISERIN AUGUSTA

Gülich DR Spange TAKU Kapitän zur See 1901, 05.10.S KAISERIN AUGUSTA

Gülich Pr. Kronen-O. 2. Kl. Kapitän zur See 1901, 08.04. KAISERIN AUGUSTA, Kommandant bisher

Gülich Württb. Friedrichs-O. Komturkreuz 2. Kl. Kapitän zur See 1901, 09.06. II. Matrosendivision, m.d.Vertretung d. Kdrs. beauftr.

Gülich Norw. O.v.Hlg.Olaf, Kommandeurkreuz 2. Kl. Kapitän zur See 1902, 01.11. KAISER WILHELM II., Kommandant

Gülich Mon. O. v. Hlg. Karl, Großoffizierkreuz Kapitän zur See 1902, 10.08. KAISER WILHELM II., Kommandant

Gülich Bay. MVO Komturkreuz Konteradmiral 1904, 10.12. Kmdt. Wilhelmshaven

Gülich Pr. Kronen-O. 2. Kl., Stern z. Konteradmiral z.D. 1909, 01.27. FestungsKmd.t v. W'haven

Regards

NavalMark

Perhaps Mr. Newman can check it with a magnifier or microscope ?

NavalMark

Sorry gentlemen,

are you shure that what we see in post #2 is written by hand ? In my eyes it is a fotomechanic copy. The loss of toner particular is significant.

Regards

NavalMark

.....and the King of Prussia was the owner of all prussian orders, so the COA is 100% correct.

Regards

NavalMark

I am surprised about the large number of experts for these decoration!

Nimmergut says there were at least minimum two jewelers who procuded this decoration, Godet and Wagner. The unsharp red cross with narrow arms is not very nice, but also known on KO with Red Cross made by Godet.

I disagree with the public and i think the cross is a period original item.

Regards

CSForrester

For the moment i can only give the dates from my excel-file (Awards in the Marineverordnungsblatt 1871-1918) when the decorations were awarded.

Regards

NavalMark

U - after the date means the date is from the original award document

S - means the day of institution of the decoration (like Centenarmedaille)

R - means the first Rangliste in which this award is mentioned

No letter - date mentioned in the Marineverordnungsblatt

K?thner, Max 1888, 04.13. Pr. Centenarmedaille Leutnant zur See 1897, 03.22.S II. Torpedoabteilung, Kompanieoffizier

K?thner, Max 1888, 04.13. M.-Schwerin Greifen-O. Ritterkreuz Leutnant zur See 1897, 10.03.U II. Torpedoabteilung, Kompanieoffizier

K?thner, Max 1888, 04.13. Chinadenkm?nze in Stahl Kapit?nleutnant 1902, 04.24.U (?) ab 11/01 KAISERIN AUGUSTA

K?thner, Max 1888, 04.13. Pr. RAO 4. Kl. Kapit?nleutnant 1904, 09.13.U II. Torpedoabteilung, Kompanieoffizier

K?thner, Max 1888, 04.13. Pr. Dienstauszeichnungskreuz XXV Korvettenkapit?n 1910, 05.11.U II. Torpedodivision, Kompaniechef

K?thner, Max 1888, 04.13. Pr. Kronen-O. 3. Kl. Fregattenkapit?n 1912, 01.18.U DRESDEN, Kommandant

K?thner, Max 1888, 04.13. Pr. RAO 3. Kl. m. Schleife Kapit?n zur See 1914, 01.18.U Reichsmarineamt, Nautisches Departement

K?thner, Max 1888, 04.13. Pr. Eisernes Kreuz 1914 I. Kl. Kapit?n zur See 1918, 02.14.R Werft Wilhelmshaven, Torpedodirektor

K?thner, Max 1888, 04.13. Pr. Kronen-O. 2. Kl. m. Schwertern Kapit?n zur See 1918, 02.25.U Werft Wilhelmshaven, Torpedodirektor

K?thner, Max 1888, 04.13. ?, Milit?rverdienstkreuz 3. Kl. m. Kriegsdekoration Kapit?n zur See 1918, 08.14.U Werft Wilhelmshaven, Torpedodirektor

K?thner, Max 1888, 04.13. T?rk. Eiserner Halbmond Kapit?n zur See 1918, 08.14.U Werft Wilhelmshaven, Torpedodirektor

K?thner, Max 1888, 04.13. T?rk. Liakatmedaille m. S?beln Kapit?n zur See 1918, 08.14.U Werft Wilhelmshaven, Torpedodirektor

Gentlemen,

a very nice and original cardboard for a specimen of a ribbon bar - but does anyone realy believe in the combination of cardboard and this ribbon bar ?

There should be a pure piece of metal, showing how to produce the base with needle and catch. Or wanted the war ministry to show how to lay one ribbon edge over the next ?

I would like to see whats to read there: Armeeverordnungsblatt 1915 page 420, AKO vom 21.9.1915.

Regards

CSForrester

One more, but who is it ? Hans Howaldt ?

Sorry, rank is Kapit?n zur See on the pic.

Regards

NavalMark

I cant say anything about the bavarian case, but for the cross still a very high risk. For what i see from the reverse it is golden and so a fake. So i would only buy it if the seller gives full garanties for 10 days-money-back. If he does not - i would not buy the cross.

They are offered for 500-600 Euro by different sellers, and if the red cross is a fake, it is worth less than 200,- Euro.

So it depends on the price and the value of the case .....

Regards

CSForrester

Hello pinpon590,

the round circle on the side of the medaillon is no makers or hall mark. It is a screw-pin that goes diagonaly from one side to the other and with this pin the medaillon is fixed to the cross. You see the screw on the pic below next to the sword.

When the medaillons were fixed the longer screwpin was cut and polished down to the surface of the medaillon-corpus.

The red cross should be silver, not silver-gilt, am i right ?

Regards

NavalMark

Yes,

anyone can.

Ausbildungsbataillon 1 - 4 were the former Schiffsstammabteilung 1 - 4 of the Federal German Navy.

Established in 1956 with tallys with the old gotic letters like the Kriegsmarine. In 1959 the Schiffsstammabteilung got the new title Ausbildungsbataillon and they received new tallys, also with gotic letters for some month until the new tallys with modern Antiqua-Letters were introduced end of 1959

So they are not Kriegsmarine-tallys !

Regards

NavalMark

...reverse

One more for the Ordensfest 1870.

Admiralit?tsrat Richter received the RAO 3rd class on this occasion.

It is pale-yellow, sorry, only a b/w-pic here at the moment.

Regards

NavalMark

A real piece like the one on the picture is in discussion in the WAF. Same eagles, same pie wedge, and it is probably made in the 20th by Rothe in Wien.

http://www.wehrmacht-awards.com/forums/sho...5448&page=2

Regards

NavalMark

The photo in post#6 is taken on board S.M.S. FREYA, an old cruiser used as a training-ship for cadets, also the tallies show S.M.S. FREYA.

Regards

NavalMark

Hello Ricardo,

the chronometer is shure a nice Junghans and the clock-maker did a good job. But i see no chance for the dial. I have seen a lot of Kriegsmarine-chronometers - but never with a paper-/cardboard dial, always with metal dials with etched or stamped eagle and registration-number and with arabic numbers not roman.

This is a nice phantasy-product. Basic an english or american dial (see "F" and "S" for faster and slower), in combination with an eagle used on documents and the name with " ".

Why Gazelle ? Graf Spee or Gorch Fock would produce a lot of doubts at once, i think.

I think you should post it in the Wehrmacht Award Forum to hear more opinions.

Best Regards

NavalMark